Plan To Remove Sheffield Rail Link To Manchester Airport

[butlers 261]

That tram_ train scheme ,granted a trial, came in at £60 million more than the initial £15 initial cost.

Mind boggling amounts of money.

 

[bungleboy69 101]

5 hours ago, butlers said:

That tram_ train scheme ,granted a trial, came in at £60 million more than the initial £15 initial cost.

Mind boggling amounts of money.

 

Whoever estimated that size of job at £15 needs to go back to college. Can't get much more than 3 pints for that these days. 

 

But seriously, if  schemes like were to awarded on a fixed priced contract, some big firms would surely go under.  I wouldn't be happy about quoting a job at £5k and then asking customer for £25K. I understand things can change and bits can be added on etc. but to cost 5 times more than the original estimate is crazy.

 

When Multiplex, an Australian company built Wembley,  they lost £183m on the original £445m fixed-price-design and construction cost.  Absolutely bonkers....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/feb/24/newsstory.sport2

 

 

 

 

[BigAl1 143]

11 hours ago, dave_the_m said:

The Rotherham link was an experiment - it required special new trams that can run on both rail types, and lots of faffing about with signalling and so on. It also runs just on a short length of freight line. A Dore link would have to run on the main line and compete with all the local and intercity train services. It would also require electrification of the line between Sheffield and Dore.

 

So that isn't going to happen any time soon.

Actually the Rotherham link is not just freight it shares some of the track with passenger services. having said that it would certainly be impractical to run the trams over the current track to Dore - for all sorts of reasons not the least that it would preclude electrification of the main line to London (or even Manchester) as trams use different systems to the mail line trains

[Guest busdriver1]

3 minutes ago, Bigal1 said:

Actually the Rotherham link is not just freight it shares some of the track with passenger services. having said that it would certainly be impractical to run the trams over the current track to Dore - for all sorts of reasons not the least that it would preclude electrification of the main line to London (or even Manchester) as trams use different systems to the mail line trains

Is it not the case though that for the majority of the route a separate line could be constructed using old track beds?

[Annie Bynnol 612]

20 hours ago, Bigal1 said:

Actually the Rotherham link is not just freight it shares some of the track with passenger services. having said that it would certainly be impractical to run the trams over the current track to Dore - for all sorts of reasons not the least that it would preclude electrification of the main line to London (or even Manchester) as trams use different systems to the mail line trains

The overhead wiring in Rotherham and the Tramtrains are designed for tram( 750 V DC ) and  25 000 V  AC main line electricity supply.

This was part of the brief for the trial.

Cuts in cost meant that the very expensive sub station was cut late on in the project.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

From December 2022 there will be no direct services from Sheffield to Manchester Airport.

One direct service between Sheffield and Manchester Airport will be offered in each direction at the start and end of the day.

Liverpool to Cleethorpes and Liverpool to Nottingham 

Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly (Hope Valley stopper)

Because both Liverpools (via Stockport and Liverpool South Parkway) will go to Liverpool a cross  platform connection to the Airport will be frequent(10 min)

 

Option B has been adjusted to become B+ which means no Warrington Central stop.

 

The report really does stiff Sheffield -totally ignoring the strenuous efforts to avoid the loss of a through service, Lancashire and West Yorkshire benefit at South Yorkshires expense.

 

Northern Hub has now been replaced by Manchester Recovery Task Force Public Consultation Timetabling of rail services in the Manchester area. REPORT

[BigAl1 143]

 

Looks as if you did this in a hurry

17 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

From December 2022 there will be no direct services from Sheffield to Manchester Airport.

One direct service between Sheffield and Manchester Airport will be offered in each direction at the start and end of the day.

 

 

 

[Andy C 86]

In reality Sheffield trains haven't run through to the airport since the start of the Coronavirus pandemic, terminating at Manchester Piccadilly (City Centre) instead.

 

It does look like the proposal for the Sheffield trains to run through to Liverpool instead of the Airport is going to happen, bar a train at the start and end of day. All the changes mean trains won't be reversing on route at Manchester Piccadilly which involves a disruptive crossover move and the trains running on the one through line beyond Piccadilly to Oxford Road each way are streamlined.

 

A lot of people have been very vocal about Sheffield losing the direct train to the Airport. A point made however is how many of those people  actually buy tickets for the train to the Airport and how often? Perhaps once a year for an annual holiday? The vast majority of Sheffield passengers on the Transpennine Express train get off at Piccadilly and very few are still on the train when it continues to the airport. Running through to the airport from Sheffield is hitting reliability of services across the North of England and also meant the trains could only be 3 carriages due to the limited capacity of the airport station, whereas the Sheffield services are now 6 carriages to cope with demand between Sheffield and Manchester Piccadilly.  Therefore pandering to the tiny number of airport passengers is causing delays and overcrowding to the majority of passengers who are travelling to the City Centre.

 

Liverpool is also a popular destination with the current East Midlands service from Sheffield very busy. The changes improves Sheffield's service to Liverpool from hourly to half hourly. 

 

All Sheffield express trains will use platform 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly, which is also the platform that all the Manchester Airport trains will use, so airport passengers can pretty much step off the Sheffield train directly onto the connecting airport train.

 

So yes, Sheffield loses direct trains to the airport which is a shame, but gains a service that is more reliable and less crowded and also gains a more frequent Liverpool service, all changes that benefit the majority of Sheffield passengers.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Andy C

[dutch 68]

It is cheaper for a small family to pre book a taxi than to take train to airport.

[Anna B 1,414]

Sheffield always seems to miss out to other nearby cities, eg Manchester (bigger,) Leeds (arguably bigger and more central in the County of Yorkshire, therefore regards itself as the capital of yorkshire,) Doncaster (better rail links and central to the rail industry,) Hull (important Northern port with close links to Europe.) 

Since the demise of the steel industry Sheffield has lost it's way. It's up to the council to find its USP and better ways to promote it as a destination.

[BigAl1 143]

15 hours ago, Andy C said:

In reality Sheffield trains haven't run through to the airport since the start of the Coronavirus pandemic, terminating at Manchester Piccadilly (City Centre) instead.

 

It does look like the proposal for the Sheffield trains to run through to Liverpool instead of the Airport is going to happen, bar a train at the start and end of day. All the changes mean trains won't be reversing on route at Manchester Piccadilly which involves a disruptive crossover move and the trains running on the one through line beyond Piccadilly to Oxford Road each way are streamlined.

 

A lot of people have been very vocal about Sheffield losing the direct train to the Airport. A point made however is how many of those people  actually buy tickets for the train to the Airport and how often? Perhaps once a year for an annual holiday? The vast majority of Sheffield passengers on the Transpennine Express train get off at Piccadilly and very few are still on the train when it continues to the airport. Running through to the airport from Sheffield is hitting reliability of services across the North of England and also meant the trains could only be 3 carriages due to the limited capacity of the airport station, whereas the Sheffield services are now 6 carriages to cope with demand between Sheffield and Manchester Piccadilly.  Therefore pandering to the tiny number of airport passengers is causing delays and overcrowding to the majority of passengers who are travelling to the City Centre.

 

Liverpool is also a popular destination with the current East Midlands service from Sheffield very busy. The changes improves Sheffield's service to Liverpool from hourly to half hourly. 

 

All Sheffield express trains will use platform 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly, which is also the platform that all the Manchester Airport trains will use, so airport passengers can pretty much step off the Sheffield train directly onto the connecting airport train.

 

So yes, Sheffield loses direct trains to the airport which is a shame, but gains a service that is more reliable and less crowded and also gains a more frequent Liverpool service, all changes that benefit the majority of Sheffield passengers.

Well said Andy. For me the only downside is that in the past the trains have always been often overcrowded because of the lack of carriages so the extra carriages (if they appear) will be a bonus (at least starting from the airport you were guaranteed a seat). I don't know what the numbers are but certainly one can not argue with the operational issues.

 

yes it was nice having a direct train but I for one am not going to throw my toys out over this