Plan To Remove Sheffield Rail Link To Manchester Airport

[Anna B 1,401]

On 20/02/2021 at 10:43, Bigal1 said:

Dream on Doncaster will never be able to provide the range of destinations offer by Manchester

 

Have you ever tried getting to Doncaster airport by public transport from Sheffield - makes changing trains at Piccadilly seem like a walk in the park

 

Agree that in many respects Manchester airport is a second rate experience

 

the various changes that Annie Bynnol should make the service far more reliable and despite the need for a change far less stressful.

Doesn't Doncaster already have one of the longest runways in Europe, left over from when it was a military base?

Surely this could be brought back into use to provide long haul flights to distant destinations. There is space for the necessary infrastructure that could be put in place to support it. It's also nearer the MI for transport links.

 

The North needs a modern, state-of-the-art airport this side of the Pennines, if it is to compete with Europe for trade and commerce, and it will help to even up the North/South divide as well. Hull is well placed for sea and shipping to the continent. Heathrow is bursting at the seams and so is London. If the UK is to work as a cohesive whole and share in future prosperity, then investment must be encouraged to come North, where there is room to grow, affordable housing and a plentiful and willing workforce.  Good, viable integrated transport links are key. 

[Annie Bynnol 612]

4 hours ago, Anna B said:

Doesn't Doncaster already have one of the longest runways in Europe, left over from when it was a military base?

Surely this could be brought back into use to provide long haul flights to distant destinations. There is space for the necessary infrastructure that could be put in place to support it. It's also nearer the MI for transport links.

 

The North needs a modern, state-of-the-art airport this side of the Pennines, if it is to compete with Europe for trade and commerce, and it will help to even up the North/South divide as well. Hull is well placed for sea and shipping to the continent. Heathrow is bursting at the seams and so is London. If the UK is to work as a cohesive whole and share in future prosperity, then investment must be encouraged to come North, where there is room to grow, affordable housing and a plentiful and willing workforce.  Good, viable integrated transport links are key. 

All true but irrelevant. 

Manchester is an international/domestic/holiday airport now.

The only comparable airports in England are Heathrow and Gatwick.

 

With domestic mainland GB air travel is officially discouraged, eastern European demand falling and uncertainty of freight demand and direct competition from the much better located East Midlands, Doncaster will find it difficult to expand.

Travel to Doncaster Airport barely supports a service bus.

 

 

[BigAl1 143]

7 hours ago, Anna B said:

Doesn't Doncaster already have one of the longest runways in Europe, left over from when it was a military base?

Surely this could be brought back into use to provide long haul flights to distant destinations. There is space for the necessary infrastructure that could be put in place to support it. It's also nearer the MI for transport links.

 

The North needs a modern, state-of-the-art airport this side of the Pennines, if it is to compete with Europe for trade and commerce, and it will help to even up the North/South divide as well. Hull is well placed for sea and shipping to the continent. Heathrow is bursting at the seams and so is London. If the UK is to work as a cohesive whole and share in future prosperity, then investment must be encouraged to come North, where there is room to grow, affordable housing and a plentiful and willing workforce.  Good, viable integrated transport links are key. 

The question is whether there is a bigger enough catchment for Doncaster to compete successfully with the other UK airports.  Leeds/Bradford is already about to build a new terminal

 

yes I agree that good integrated transport links are vital indeed that is what this whole thread is about

[Anna B 1,401]

On 24/02/2021 at 10:20, Bigal1 said:

The question is whether there is a bigger enough catchment for Doncaster to compete successfully with the other UK airports.  Leeds/Bradford is already about to build a new terminal

 

yes I agree that good integrated transport links are vital indeed that is what this whole thread is about

Considering it is about as central to the UK it's possible to get, near the MI, and to the east of the backbone of England, I would have thought that the catchment for a major Northern International airport (or even spaceport) was huge.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

9 hours ago, Anna B said:

Considering it is about as central to the UK it's possible to get, near the MI, and to the east of the backbone of England, I would have thought that the catchment for a major Northern International airport (or even spaceport) was huge.

The geographical centre  of the UK is around Morecambe Bay.

The centre of population of Britain already has an airport 12 miles NE at East Midlands. Wikipedia and 60 miles from Doncaster and Manchester

The centre of population of the the conurbations of Lancashire and Yorkshire would probably be around Rochdale. 

 

To the North, East, North and South of Doncaster is the emptyness of  Nottinghamshire, the eastern parts of Yorkshire and  Lincolnshire with only major city being Hull. Doncaster is not at the centre of anything.

 

 

 

[BigAl1 143]

11 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

 

To the North, East, North and South of Doncaster is the emptyness of  Nottinghamshire, the eastern parts of Yorkshire and  Lincolnshire with only major city being Hull. Doncaster is not at the centre of anything.

 

 

 

Thank you Annie you got there before me.

 

In addition one should not forget that to the South is Birmingham and East Midlands (cargo) airports and to the west Manchester which already have significant international destinations

[AndrewC 306]

On 22/02/2021 at 15:54, tinfoilhat said:

Depending on how airlines and holiday companies get on next year, I wouldn't be hugely surprised if some airports like Doncaster shut completely.

That is indeed another very possible future timeline, yep.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

The newly published summer timetable has no daytime trains to Manchester Airport -due to Covid.

 

There will be earlier and later trains to/from  London this summer onward, including from Luton Airport. 

 

 

[Andy C 85]

I thought just browsing through this thread I would summarise the thinking with the options proposed in the Manchester rail consultation.

 

When the airport station was opened there was successful lobbying for a direct service to be introduced from Sheffield and the train has operated ever since. Manchester is well established as the main airport for our area for both business and holiday flights. Understandably Sheffield people want the service to continue - its easy, convenient and avoids the poor roads across the Pennines which is especially appropriate in winter. A direct service for a market that typically has heavy luggage is always more attractive.

 

The problem in the Manchester area is the number of trains have increased over recent years without matching investment in the infrastructure - there are effectively more trains than track capacity meaning congestion is causing a lot of delays. The proposals reduce the overall number of trains and also simplifies the routes to minimise conflicting movements.

 

The Transpennine Express service from Sheffield which runs through to the airport is a very busy one and the 3 car trains often cannot cope with demand. The platform at the airport does not have the capacity for bigger trains. Transpennine Express now have enough rolling stock allocated to the Sheffield route to be able to provide 6 car trains to improve this situation but cannot operate them to the airport. The vast majority of passengers from Sheffield get off at Piccadilly (the City Centre station) and only a handful stay on to the airport. The requirement for this train to reverse at Piccadilly and cross over several lines often caused delays.

 

The proposal in two out of the three options in the public consultation is that the trains from Cleethorpes/Sheffield will run to Liverpool instead of Manchester Airport and combined with the East Midlands Railway service from Nottingham will give Sheffield a half hourly fast service to Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road and Liverpool Lime Street with plenty of seats and hopefully improved timekeeping. The Northern stopping train from Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly will continue unchanged.

 

Also in the above proposals all the airport trains will be on a cross Manchester route, therefore all will use platforms 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly, the same platform as the Sheffield-Liverpool trains meaning the connections will not involve crossing the bridge.

 

You can read more and take part in the consultation (closing date 10th March) here: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/timetable-options-to-improve-rail-performance-in-the-north-of-england

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Andy C

[BigAl1 143]

27 minutes ago, Andy C said:

 

The Transpennine Express service from Sheffield which runs through to the airport is a very busy one and the 3 car trains often cannot cope with demand. The platform at the airport does not have the capacity for bigger trains. Transpennine Express now have enough rolling stock allocated to the Sheffield route to be able to provide 6 car trains to improve this situation but cannot operate them to the airport.

 

 

Andy. I was under the impression that platforms at manchester airport can take  eight carriages trains. That means  3 car trains or even better two 4 car trains.

 

 

[MrAllen2K21 0]

On 01/03/2021 at 11:30, Bigal1 said:

Thank you Annie you got there before me.

 

In addition one should not forget that to the South is Birmingham and East Midlands (cargo) airports and to the west Manchester which already have significant international destinations

Also don't forget that some people in the North have the opposite affliction as some Southerners, some Northeners won't go further South than Birmingham, by the same token, some Southerners think anything North of the Watford Gap's on another Planet!

 

[Annie Bynnol 612]

TPE trains to Manchester Airport are booked for Class 185 6-car trains with one exception.

In the short term they are not running past Piccadilly because of Covid and are still not running after the May update.

 

In the long term the proposals for consultation focus on the needs of Andy Burnham  Greater Manchester, with commuter traffic which has been severely disrupted hit by the failure of Boris to fund the planned platform 15/16.

Removing the longer distance train access to the Airport reduces the problem cheaply and Sheffield trains as Andy C says cause the biggest problem.