New Cars Approved From 2022 To Have Speed Limiters Fitted

[Bargepole23 337]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

It's very relevant.  Cars are manufactured to go anywhere a driver chooses to go.    If I want to drive over to Germany and drive on German motorways why should my car be forced to have restriction to 75mph but the legally permitted speed limits unrestricted in certain areas. 

 

There are multiple other countries where the standard motorway limits, although restricted, are well over the the UK one. There are even variations dependent on time of day or weather conditions.

 

I'm allowed to drive my car onto a racetrack with the rest of the 'civies' during allocated events and drive at track speed so why should my car be limited to 75 by some government mandated  policy.

 

The point is you cannot simply apply blanket rules and blanket restrictions without thinking of the wider consequences.

 

A knife for example is designed to be as sharp and it can be to enable cutting something as efficiently as possible. A knife just also happens to sometimes maim and kill people. Should we presumably have a blunting of all knives to try to reduce how much harm they 'might' do.

 

No point blaming bad tools. No point restricting development and advancement of our vehicles when those at fault for speeding and causing accidents are the fleshy parts behind the wheel not the vehicle itself.   Yes, we could limit vehicles to 75 but that's going to do sod all to prevent somebody getting knocked over when a bad driver is screaming through a 20 mile an hour zone at 35+

 

No "speed" does not kill. Bad driving kills. Inappropriate "uses" of speed for the road conditions kill. Poor judgement kills. Poor maintencece kills.

So your argument seems in part to be that because vehicles are driven by humans, then the vehicles themselves should be unrestricted. We don't apply the same principles to other machinery, we design out the risks or fit safeguards to prevent people harming themselves or others.

 

You also state that limiting speed wouldn't prevent speeding in residential areas. So what, if we can't fix everything we should fix nothing?

 

As for track driving, you are in a very small minority, the safety requirements of the vast majority far outweigh any need for you to use your car on a track. I'm sure that an engineered workaround could easily be implemented if required, as it could for using your car overseas.

 

[Annie Bynnol 612]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

 Yes, we could limit vehicles to 75 but that's going to do sod all to prevent somebody getting knocked over when a bad driver is screaming through a 20 mile an hour zone at 35+

 

No "speed" does not kill. Bad driving kills. Inappropriate "uses" of speed for the road conditions kill. Poor judgement kills. Poor maintencece kills.

 

The average driver will say they are a  better than average driver- which is irrational.

What most drivers are roundabout(sic) average, they make the average number of errors and and suffer an average number of unforeseen  situation. 

The ability to react is affected by numerous factors but all are compounded by speed and mass(velocity momentum etc.)

 

The average driver overestimate their driving skills, understand risk or understand  consequences.

When travelling abroad there are far more important things to do and consider than wanting to go fast,  including making changes to the vehicle.

 

Instead of limiters, tachographs/black boxes should be used in all vehicles which report to roadside receivers or mobile phone network. 

The black box could be used to pay for tolls/parking/parking fines etc 

[willman 10]

41 minutes ago, Bargepole23 said:

So your argument seems in part to be that because vehicles are driven by humans, then the vehicles themselves should be unrestricted. We don't apply the same principles to other machinery, we design out the risks or fit safeguards to prevent people harming themselves or others.

 

You also state that limiting speed wouldn't prevent speeding in residential areas. So what, if we can't fix everything we should fix nothing?

 

As for track driving, you are in a very small minority, the safety requirements of the vast majority far outweigh any need for you to use your car on a track. I'm sure that an engineered workaround could easily be implemented if required, as it could for using your car overseas.

 

Why not start with speed limiters in 30 zones and below, then everyone coming out of the supermarket car park or when they start taking the kids back to school won't be able to speed (and then deny it).

[Resident 1,185]

7 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

 

The average driver will say they are a  better than average driver- which is irrational.

What most drivers are roundabout(sic) average, they make the average number of errors and and suffer an average number of unforeseen  situation. 

The ability to react is affected by numerous factors but all are compounded by speed and mass(velocity momentum etc.)

 

The average driver overestimate their driving skills, understand risk or understand  consequences.

When travelling abroad there are far more important things to do and consider than wanting to go fast,  including making changes to the vehicle.

 

Instead of limiters, tachographs/black boxes should be used in all vehicles which report to roadside receivers or mobile phone network. 

The black box could be used to pay for tolls/parking/parking fines etc 

And push us closer to the authorities using 1984 as an instruction manual rather than the warning it was meant as.

[Resident 1,185]

9 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

You chose to list racetracks or German motorways. Neither has any relevance to the average UK driver.

 

The "speed kills" was clearly in the context of driving, not flying, as you well know.

 

If you are arguing that driving at 80 is no more dangerous than driving at 70, that would seem contrary to common sense. If I need to make a decision and react to a danger on the road, I have less time at 80 than I do at 70, and therefore I might be able to avoid at 70, but not at 80. In the same car and conditions, stopping distance increases from 96m to 124m. Kinetic energy increases by 30%, for a 1500kg vehicle.

 

 

Distance figures arrived at using a 1953 Ford Anglia with cable operated drum-brakes, figures that are 60 years old and haven't been updated, despite massive advances in braking technology & despite many calls and campaigns by motoring groups such as the RAC. 

For the rest, @ECCOnoob pretty much covered it. 

[Annie Bynnol 612]

27 minutes ago, Resident said:

And push us closer to the authorities using 1984 as an instruction manual rather than the warning it was meant as.

Or a return to what personal transport is about getting from A to B cheaply, efficiently and safely without endangering others or their environment.

 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, rudds1 said:

Been reported from 2022 any new approved cars will have to have speed limiters fitted amongest other things like pre wiring for breathalyser equipment and Volvo are to restrict their cars to 117 mph.     Will people just find a way of over riding these systems etc 

Could you provide a link please. Most Japanese cars have  a speed limiter of around 112mph over there.

[Bargepole23 337]

10 hours ago, Resident said:

Distance figures arrived at using a 1953 Ford Anglia with cable operated drum-brakes, figures that are 60 years old and haven't been updated, despite massive advances in braking technology & despite many calls and campaigns by motoring groups such as the RAC. 

For the rest, @ECCOnoob pretty much covered it. 

And it is widely understood that the "thinking time" used in those figures is underestimated, and with all the distractions a modern car has, likely to be even longer.

 

Did ECCOnoob explain anything about the differences in kinetic energy and where all that extra energy goes? Did you?

 

Much like it's transferred into pedestrians getting hit by cars travelling at 30mph in 20mph zones, and kills them.

[Jim117 72]

A note on black boxes. Both my son and stepdaughter were required to have these fitted by their insurance companies when they started driving. They work on a score system whereby too low a score leads to withdrawal of insurance. My lad was marked down for performing an emergency stop (harsh braking)and my stepdaughter was marked down for high revs. She has a tiny engined car and lives in a very hilly area of North Yorkshire. The system is currently clearly not yet flexible enough to account for real world situations.

[L00b 441]

On 27 January 2021 at 12:06, bassett one said:

but making your car do no more than 117mph is still 47 mph over the limit,why not make all cars say 75mph and thats it,i know some will say thats still 5mph over ,but you need discretion.

If you want the UK to continue exporting Nissans and Minis to the Continent, better not. 

 

The motorway speed limit in many countries -and certainly the 2 largest markets, France and Germany- is 82 mph.

 

Besides, most cars that integrate cruise control have long had a (user-selectable / -activatable) speed limiter option. Takes seconds to set on our 14 year old (low end) Mercedes.

 

Modern cars with built-in GPS and cruise control already integrate all the technology required to implement this.

 

My car has a GPS 'repeater' in the instrument cluster that displays the speed limit for the road I'm on and updates it in real time (by comparison with observing roadside signposts, the accuracy looks like 5-ish meters) and a "naughtymeter" that compares my current driving speed to it in realtime (5 green bars = at or under it, down to 1 red bar = multiples in excess of it). It'd be easy enough to get those electronics to 'talk' to the (similarly-electronic) throttle.

 

The car is manufacturer-restricted to 155mph, like most other EU cars (-I believe). But that manufacturer limit is removable, likewise the power output is upgradeable, through reprogramming. Again, as with most other cars.

Edited January 28, 2021 by L00b

[Resident 1,185]

19 minutes ago, Jim117 said:

A note on black boxes. Both my son and stepdaughter were required to have these fitted by their insurance companies when they started driving. They work on a score system whereby too low a score leads to withdrawal of insurance. My lad was marked down for performing an emergency stop (harsh braking)and my stepdaughter was marked down for high revs. She has a tiny engined car and lives in a very hilly area of North Yorkshire. The system is currently clearly not yet flexible enough to account for real world situations.

Black boxes only measure parameters. They don't give any context and that's the issue. 

[alchresearch 214]

1 hour ago, Jim117 said:

 my stepdaughter was marked down for high revs. She has a tiny engined car and lives in a very hilly area of North Yorkshire. 

Not sure why you'd need high revs?  And what do you class as "high"?