So What's Neoliberalism?

[Anna B 1,414]

1 hour ago, Janus said:

@Anna B

Let us assume that all that has been posted about neoliberalism on this thread is true and correct without any doubt.

 

I have a question in reference to you saying  "It will be too late by the time we wake up and realise ",  or words to that effect.

 

If  all those opposing the regime wanted to start  now and collectively to  do something to combat this regime of neoliberalism, what would you feel we should be doing? Please elabotate if possible.

Genuine question.
 

Good question. And sadly, I have to say I don't know the answer. I

If the ballot box is not going to effective then the only alternative seems to be direct action, and that requires a lot, and preferably all the people singing from the same hymn sheet. You only have to look at this thread/forum to see how difficult that is going to be. Getting the message across is key, and it's a really complex problem  with all sorts of side issues it's easy to get diverted into.

 

Mainstream media is not going to help so it falls to direct action like Occupy (remember them?) and social media which now has its own problems  beset as it is with trolls and fake news. The same thing happened with the impending financial crisis which was rife on the internet 3 years prior to the crash, but no one was listening or would believe them. 

 

There are possible solutions such as the one proposed by Nick Hanauer (link below) and his 'New Capitalism,' but he is just one man, (albeit a very rich one.) and depends on other entrepreneurs displaying some integrity too.

I think as the problems become more apparent to more people, more solutions will surface, if they're allowed to. 

 

I have hope that this can be sorted out if enough people have the will to do it.

 

 

 

[Shreddie 10]

In just about every country in the world one can only vote for the status quo as all  alternatives are  subdued by various financial and media marginalisation methods. Words like 'democracy' and 'communism' are bandied about usually to promote or demonise various political views.  Democracy and communism are similar in that no one knows whether either really works as no one has ever tried them.

[Janus 28]

Is this, and organisations like them the wrong direction Anna?
https://swp.org.uk/

[Anna B 1,414]

1 hour ago, Shreddie said:

In just about every country in the world one can only vote for the status quo as all  alternatives are  subdued by various financial and media marginalisation methods. Words like 'democracy' and 'communism' are bandied about usually to promote or demonise various political views.  Democracy and communism are similar in that no one knows whether either really works as no one has ever tried them.

True, but it didn't use to be that way, and can change. 

[Anna B 1,414]

6 hours ago, Janus said:

Is this, and organisations like them the wrong direction Anna?
https://swp.org.uk/

They don't speak for me personally, but each to their own. 

 

I am not against Capitalism at all as long as it is responsible capitalism which benefits everybody. That requires an honest government with some integrity who keep their eye on the ball and watch out for breaches and unexpected consequences, Alongside that, we need a decent well regulated tax system which sees to it that everyone (and I mean everyone) pays their fair share of tax, (No dodgy tax accountants looking for multiple loop holes etc) These two things are the best and simplest way of generating income and redistributing it to where it's needed. Get those in place and much of the rest will follow. There would be enough money for projects, infrastructure and a decent welfare system, and the millionaires and billionaires would still have plenty of money for a nice life even if they can only afford one yacht instead of 3. 

 

The world is changing, in ways we have only just begun to imagine. It will present problems like environmental issues for sure, but should also be a time of great opportunities and new ways of doing things. It could be exciting and good for everyone, with enough for all and security for all.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Anna B

[El Cid 220]

25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I am not against Capitalism as long as it is responsible capitalism which benefits everybody.

Well the Cameron Government promised a much higher minimum wage, they almost delivered it, so I guess you are almost happy.

The problem with any UK Government trying to please the masses with capitalism or socialism, is that we live in a international world, where some will think working for £2 per hour is good pay.

If you try to pay UK workers £20 per hour, they wont have a job, £10 per hour might just be ok.

[ECCOnoob 1,050]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

Not for me personally, but each to their own. 

 

I am not against Capitalism at all as long as it is responsible capitalism which benefits everybody. That requires an honest government with some integrity who keep their eye on the ball and watch out for breaches and unexpected consequences, Alongside that, we need a decent well regulated tax system which sees to it that everyone (and I mean everyone) pays their fair share of tax, (No dodgy tax accountants looking for multiple loop holes etc) These two things are the best and simplest way of generating income and redistributing it to where it's needed. Get those in place and much of the rest will follow. There would be enough money for projects, infrastructure and a decent welfare system, and the millionaires and billionaires would still have plenty of money for a nice life even if they can only afford one yacht instead of 3. 

 

The world is changing, in ways we have only just begun to imagine. It will present problems like environmental issues for sure, but should also be a time of great opportunities and new ways of doing things. It could be exciting and good for everyone, with enough for all and security for all.

Yes we have heard it all before.

 

It's a lovely ideological philosophy but once again we have that thorny issue of practical reality.

 

Who exactly is deciding what is fair?

 

What is being defined as a so-called decent welfare? We already are one of the top 5 biggest nations for government health expenditure last headline stats showing NHS budget of around £114 billion and a forecast figure on welfare expenditure amounting to over £200 billion. That's just two government sectors let alone all the billions spent on all the  other parts making up our public services.  Yet somehow, year on year people scream it's never enough.   What would it be?  

 

We then have the usual demands about so called "fair tax" as if it's all so simple  - but how do you  enforce companies to pay more tax when they are already paying what the law determines they have to pay? Make the laws stricter of course, but then theres the fallout when such companies decide somewhere else is cheaper to operate and just ups sticks and goes? What then happens to investment, jobs, trade?  What about the then inevitable friction created by heavy handed government controls and interference against the principles of a globalised economy, market freedoms, consumer choice? 

 

How is even possible to create some ideological level playing field when there is such a clear discrepancy between the so called "poverty" pleaded by people who have a minimum wage protection and/or state funded accommodation, state mandated benefits, free healthcare, free education.....when those exact same amount of monies would be seen as a small fortune to a different person in a different country without the additional luxury of top up government support? What do you think the consequences would be if someone took a broad brush approach to increase across the board? How would you deal with the inevitable hyperinflation which may come following it? What levels of controls would you feel appropriate to make sure one country does not attempt to gain a competitive edge or undercut others?

 

It really isn't that simple.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by ECCOnoob

[Longcol 604]

2 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yes we have heard it all before.

 

It's a lovely ideological philosophy but once again we have that thorny issue of practical reality. The same unanswered questions.

 

Who exactly is deciding what is fair?

 

What is being defined as a so-called decent welfare? We already are one of the top 5 biggest nations for government health expenditure last headline stats showing NHS budget of around £114 billion and a forecast figure on welfare expenditure amohbtong to over £200 billion. That's just government sectors let alone all the dozens of other sectors making up our public services.   Yet somehow, year on year people scream it's never enough. 

 

We then have the usual demands about so called "fair tax" as if it's all so simple  - but how do you  enforce companies to pay more tax when they are already paying what the law determines they have to pay? Make the laws stricter of course, but then theres the fallout when such companies decide somewhere else is cheaper and just up sticks and go? What then happens to investment, jobs, trade?   What about the then inevitable friction created by heavy handed government controls and interference with the principles of a globalised economy, market freedoms, consumer choice? 

 

How is even possible to create some ideological level playing field when there is such a clear discrepancy between the so called "poverty" wages pleaded by people who have the luxury of state funded accommodation, state mandated benefits, free healthcare, free education.....when those exact same amount of wages are seen as a small fortune to a different person in a different country without the additional luxury of top up government support? What do you think the consequences would be if someone took a broad brush approach to increase across the board?

 

It really isn't that simple.

 

We're seeing it already with Brexit - cheaper to up sticks and go to Europe with frictionless trade.................

[Anna B 1,414]

2 hours ago, El Cid said:

Well the Cameron Government promised a much higher minimum wage, they almost delivered it, so I guess you are almost happy.

The problem with any UK Government trying to please the masses with capitalism or socialism, is that we live in a international world, where some will think working for £2 per hour is good pay.

If you try to pay UK workers £20 per hour, they wont have a job, £10 per hour might just be ok.

You didn't watch the video then.

He explains why doubling the minimum wage would work.

Evidence of that is that It's already been tried, and has already worked.

[El Cid 220]

6 hours ago, Anna B said:

You didn't watch the video then.

He explains why doubling the minimum wage would work.

Evidence of that is that It's already been tried, and has already worked.

I watched some of it. Do you think the steep increase of the minimum wage of to now has helped?

[Anna B 1,414]

9 hours ago, El Cid said:

I watched some of it. Do you think the steep increase of the minimum wage of to now has helped?

First of all I think you need to watch all of it to get the full picture.

 

Re; minimum wage, it's all relative. Any increase must help, but currently the minimum wage works out at about £16,000 before tax for full time 52 weeks a year, assuming holiday pay is given etc. Still far below the average wage of about £27,000.

That doesn't take into account that many minimum wage jobs are insecure 0 hour jobs, and contract, gig economy work which doesn't pay for lunch, tea breaks etc or guarantee full time employment. There will still be many people on minimum wage that don't get that. And the cost of living in the UK is very expensive.

 

Many of the working poor still require government benefits and food banks to make ends meet, which surely can't be right.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Anna B

[El Cid 220]

32 minutes ago, Anna B said:

 There will still be many people on minimum wage that don't get that.

Perhaps if the minimum wage is seldom enforced, the likelyhood of it being doubled is zero. It has been said that our high minimum wage relative to other countries has attracted foreign labour here. If we increased the NMW by 50% and other countries did nothing, that effect would be made worse. People would be swimming the seas to get here.