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So What's Neoliberalism?

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57 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Free at the point of use. There's a big difference. Actually it's everybody looking after everybody else. Something to be admired I would have thought. 

 

What's wrong with neoliberalism? It's based on selfishness. It's all about greed, its the philosophy of the 'I'm all right Jack. so f...k you' brigade. 

 

The alternative is kindness, care and working together for the benefit of all.

 

 

31 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

So just a load more generic nonsense then.

 

No comments on why exactly free trade and free commerce is such a bad thing. No comment on why there should controls on pricing.  No comment on why we should be restricted in our business practices and limited as to where and how we trade. No comment so why exactly freedom of choice to consumers is so bad. No comment on why exactly globalisation and ability to purchase goods and services from a range of locations is detrimental rather than a  benefit.  No comment as to why privatisation and competition of previously government owned monopoly isnt actually a good thing. No comment on why you feel it is preferred to have heavy-handed government control, dependency and interference in our  econonomic and personal lives. Still no actual comment as to what the credible and proven alternative is.

 

You disparaging mention my supposed prejudice but you were the one who made a point of starting this debate thread yet all you seem to have done is use it to make extremely blunt over simplistic points whilst ignoring any actual questions and challenges.

 

I think I'm pretty much done with this. I'm not convinced there was any intention to debate the substance of neoliberalism and it's just one of many long winded disguised threads pushing the same tired old arguments about how wonderful the failed left of Labour are. 

My understanding, and I want to do more reading on the subject, is that free markets and neo liberalism are not interchangeable, and there are differences between the two.

I think Anna you've fallen into the trap of binary opposites - everything wrong in society is down to neo liberalism, and the grass is greener on the other side. I just don't think it's a simplistic as that

In the last few years the failure of neoliberalism has been acknowledged from previous stalwarts of that school of thought from organisations like the IMF, OECD and powerful individuals like Alan Greenspan. Interestingly, they came to their acknowledgments after the 2008 credit crunch.

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This is more than just an interesting thread if you take it seriously it's actually VERY  scary!

A while back i chanced across an off the cuff comment by Naom Chomsky who said it was neither "neo" or "liberal" which seems a clear indication of the old political ploy of engaging in verbal camouflage so that nobody picks up on the truth until it's too late! By which I mean they seek a fait accompli  - Whilst on a different level if you look below the surface of right wing middle class/ Tory politicians very often they seek to appear as if they are rational & thus we should agree with their point of view as they are "logical".

But as far as I'm concerned you can build THE most impressive  shining  "ivory towers" of logic & NONE  of it means a damn thing until it's reality tested ! If you are aware of MULTI ORDINALITY,  the fact that words have multiple definitions ( which is why we have dictionaries ) & look up "rational" then I suggest that one of the definitions is the most appropriate for such politicians i.e. rationalisation in the sense of an intellectual lie! Which I suggest far too many politicians are far too practiced @ !

 As we still seem @ a stage here where we have some difficulty in identifying & defining the problem ( which I see as a deliberate ploy by these unscrupulous politicians - corporations-bankers who seem to have an incestuously close relationship ! ) i came across a book a while back & finally got round to reading -

 

                           "AUSTERITY   The DEMOLITION of the WELFARE STATE and the RISE of the ZOMBIE ECONOMY"

 

by KERRY-ANNE MENDOZA    ISBN   978-1-78026-246-8  Published by New Internationalist/newint.org  Paperback 9'99 GBP

( First published in 2015 & she was talking of writing a follow up so that might be out by now? )

 So to draw away the blind  fold covering our eyes according to Kerry - Anne ( who does a blog called "Scriptonite Daily" )

 what is called "Neo Liberalism" is actually  CORPORATE FASCISM where their ultimate intention is to PRIVATISE THE ENTIRE PLANET !

   Given the recent problems in America where the Barons of Silicon Valley have applied blanket censorship on those on Twitter/Instagram/Facebook/etc whose opinions they don't like (inc. Trump ) given that level of obsession with power it seems to me we have a few too many psychopaths on the loose!

 While this may initially seem to be straying from the point it's not ( as rather than sticking to symptoms/effects as most do I understand perfectly well little will be solved until we correct the Original /Primary cause - for if we succeed in that then the effects will "wither on the vine" 

  So here's the classic example from the 20th century where the "great" dictators Adolf Hitler/Joseph Stalin/Mao Zedong & Pol Pot caused World Wars/Holocaust & deliberate famine etc. Apart from being mass murderers the one other thing they all shared - & this is NO random coincidence in that they were all abused children *( & THE reason why the state of THE HUMAN CONDITION  continues to be so toxic is that while kids are born "hard wired" to be sociable & democratic is that 90% fail to get the democratic style of parenting they both need & deserve so usually become adult -children full of repressed anger. Having failed to overcome their problems they parent their kids just as they were & thus each generation screws up the next one & so it has been for countless millennia ! ) * who in order to protect themselves from their abusive relatives shut down emotionally & sought power to protect themselves i.e. they became psychopaths (read THE child psychologist ALICE MILLER ) . So THE big lesson we have failed to learn from the last century is NEVER EVER  give power to a psychopath ! ! ! !  - Though sadly it seems in the West in this century we have failed to learn that lesson as i can think of @ least two psychopaths voted into power ! - Which isn't that surprising as we are all quite deliberately "dumbed down" by the corrupt political system rigging the conventional education system to keep us stupid! - After all the last thing corrupt & incompetent politicians want is a population intelligent enough to be no longer abused by their mind games!

  BTW  i have a taste for good quality sci fi where they take a present social problem , run it forward into a dystopic future, exaggerate it to make it more obvious & let us work it out for ourselves. now if we look @ the sci fi film trilogy "Matrix, in particular the sub plot of Pt.1 ( you can safely ignore Pts @ & 3 as they are only average! ) where the robots enslave mankind &the main weapon they use is holographic projectors to create the illusion of normality ( & our illusion of normality is having a species where 90% are dysfunctional because of toxic parenting & assuming we are healthy! )

  While our present holographic technology isn't up to the level of the film, the old ways still work - 'dumb down" the education system & the press & media mainly re-issue the lies & propaganda of whatever corrupt government we are saddled with! Whatever way you look @ it, it still comes down to 

 

                                                              

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1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

So just a load more generic nonsense then.

 

No comments on why exactly free trade and free commerce is such a bad thing. No comment on why there should controls on pricing.  No comment on why we should be restricted in our business practices and limited as to where and how we trade. No comment so why exactly freedom of choice to consumers is so bad. No comment on why exactly globalisation and ability to purchase goods and services from a range of locations is detrimental rather than a  benefit.  No comment as to why privatisation and competition of previously government owned monopoly isnt actually a good thing. No comment on why you feel it is preferred to have heavy-handed government control, dependency and interference in our  econonomic and personal lives. Still no actual comment as to what the credible and proven alternative is.

 

You disparaging mention my supposed prejudice but you were the one who made a point of starting this debate thread yet all you seem to have done is use it to make extremely blunt over simplistic points whilst ignoring any actual questions and challenges.

 

I think I'm pretty much done with this. I'm not convinced there was any intention to debate the substance of neoliberalism and it's just one of many long winded disguised threads pushing the same tired old arguments about how wonderful the failed left of Labour are. 

I apologise for my prejudice comment. That's why I deleted it. I try very hard not to get personal but I was angry, but then I guess so were you, and Kelvin is right and there's no excuse, so sorry. 

 

Edited by Anna B

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10 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Very sad pictures. But I think the point is that prior to the welfare state people living in those sort of  circumstances were commonplace whereas afterwards there were far fewer, and people's prospects had greatly improved. 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

That last picture in the link of Leeds is familiar, it's the East End Park / Cross Green area of Leeds. Those terraces are still there today!

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1 minute ago, Anna B said:

Very sad pictures. But I think the point is that prior to the welfare state people living in those sort of  circumstances were commonplace whereas afterwards there were far fewer, and people's prospects had greatly improved. 

 

 

Had they? You've glossed over the fact people were restricted to the jobs they could do by race or gender and, again hand waved off the pics from the guardian because they don't suit your narrative. I can find more if you want, tell you the tales of poverty in the north east my old dad used to regale.

2 minutes ago, Mister M said:

That last picture in the link of Leeds is familiar, it's the East End Park / Cross Green area of Leeds. Those terraces are still there today!

Do you think they've been done up since?

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3 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Had they? You've glossed over the fact people were restricted to the jobs they could do by race or gender and, again hand waved off the pics from the guardian because they don't suit your narrative. I can find more if you want, tell you the tales of poverty in the north east my old dad used to regale.

Do you think they've been done up since?

I'm sure they have

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4 hours ago, jim lyon said:

This is more than just an interesting thread if you take it seriously it's actually VERY  scary!

A while back I chanced across an off the cuff comment by Naom Chomsky who said it was neither "neo" or "liberal" which seems a clear indication of the old political ploy of engaging in verbal camouflage so that nobody picks up on the truth until it's too late! By which I mean they seek a fait accompli  - Whilst on a different level if you look below the surface of right wing middle class/ Tory politicians very often they seek to appear as if they are rational & thus we should agree with their point of view as they are "logical".

But as far as I'm concerned you can build THE most impressive  shining  "ivory towers" of logic & NONE  of it means a damn thing until it's reality tested ! If you are aware of MULTI  ORDINALITY,  the fact that words have multiple definitions ( which is why we have dictionaries ) & look up "rational" then I suggest that one of the definitions is the most appropriate for such politicians i.e. rationalisation in the sense of an intellectual lie! Which I suggest far too many politicians are far too practiced @ !

 As we still seem @ a stage here where we have some difficulty in identifying & defining the problem ( which I see as a deliberate ploy by these unscrupulous politicians - corporations-bankers who seem to have an incestuously close relationship ! ) I came across a book a while back & finally got round to reading -

 

                           "AUSTERITY   The DEMOLITION of the WELFARE STATE and the RISE of the ZOMBIE ECONOMY"

 

by KERRY-ANNE MENDOZA    ISBN   978-1-78026-246-8  Published by New Internationalist/newint.org  Paperback 9.99 GBP

( First published in 2015 & she was talking of writing a follow up so that might be out by now? )

 So to draw away the blind  fold covering our eyes according to Kerry - Anne ( who does a blog called "Scriptonite Daily" )

 what is called "Neo Liberalism" is actually  CORPORATE FASCISM where their ultimate intention is to PRIVATISE THE ENTIRE PLANET !

   Given the recent problems in America where the Barons of Silicon Valley have applied blanket censorship on those on Twitter/Instagram/Facebook/etc whose opinions they don't like (inc. Trump ) given that level of obsession with power it seems to me we have a few too many psychopaths on the loose!

 While this may initially seem to be straying from the point it's not ( as rather than sticking to symptoms/effects as most do I understand perfectly well little will be solved until we correct the Original /Primary cause - for if we succeed in that then the effects will "wither on the vine" )

  So here's the classic example from the 20th century where the "great" dictators Adolf Hitler/Joseph Stalin/Mao Zedong & Pol Pot caused World Wars/Holocaust & deliberate famine etc. Apart from being mass murderers the one other thing they all shared - & this is NO random coincidence in that they were all abused children *( & THE reason why the state of THE HUMAN CONDITION  continues to be so toxic is that while kids are born "hard wired" to be sociable & democratic is that 90% fail to get the democratic style of parenting they both need & deserve so usually become adult -children full of repressed anger. Having failed to overcome their problems they parent their kids just as they were & thus each generation screws up the next one & so it has been for countless millennia ! ) * who in order to protect themselves from their abusive relatives shut down emotionally & sought power to protect themselves i.e. they became psychopaths (read THE child psychologist ALICE MILLER ) . So THE big lesson we have failed to learn from the last century is NEVER EVER  give power to a psychopath ! ! ! !  - Though sadly it seems in the West in this century we have failed to learn that lesson as I can think of @ least two psychopaths voted into power ! - Which isn't that surprising as we are all quite deliberately "dumbed down" by the corrupt political system rigging the conventional education system to keep us stupid! - After all the last thing corrupt & incompetent politicians want is a population intelligent enough to be no longer willing to be abused by their mind games!

  BTW  i have a taste for good quality sci fi where they take a present social problem , run it forward into a dystopic future, exaggerate it to make it more obvious & let us work it out for ourselves. Now if we look @ the sci fi film trilogy "Matrix", in particular the sub plot of Pt.1 ( you can safely ignore Pts @ & 3 as they are only average! ) where the robots enslave mankind & the main weapon they use is holographic projectors to create the illusion of normality ( & our illusion of normality is having a species where 90% are dysfunctional because of toxic parenting & assuming we are healthy! )

  While our present holographic technology isn't up to the level of the film, the old ways still work - "dumb down" the education system & the press & media mainly re-issue the lies & propaganda of whatever corrupt government we are saddled with! Whatever way you look @ it, it still comes down to 

 

                                                                                                 CONTROL BY ILLUSION

 

                                                              

I agree, it is scary. Very.

 

Which is why I think people have a right to know what's going on behind the scenes.  I think the only way to do that is to do their own research which is far more effective than any amount of preaching. They will discover more than they can imagine. I think you have summed it up well in the succinct 'CORPORATE FASCISM.' and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

 

I do indeed believe the ultimate aim is to privatize the whole planet. If they can get away with it, not that we poor plebs will ever be told that is the intention. And by the time the penny drops it will be too late.

 

 

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On 17/01/2021 at 11:14, Janus said:

@Anna B

Has there been programmes on TV from Panorama for example?

Not as such, as far as I know, and certainly not by name. (why would they? - they don't want you to understand it.) But the results of it can be seen in a lot of the panorama type programmes. 

 

I did however find this Ted talk:

 

 

Nick Hanauer, by his own admission a plutocrat, but I think a name well worth following. 

 

 ECCOnoob might find interesting too.  

Edited by Anna B

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7 hours ago, Anna B said:

I do indeed believe the ultimate aim is to privatize the whole planet. If they can get away with it, not that we poor plebs will ever be told that is the intention. And by the time the penny drops it will be too late.

 

 

Who are they?

6 hours ago, Anna B said:

Not as such, as far as I know, and certainly not by name. (why would they? - they don't want you to understand it.) But the results of it can be seen in a lot of the panorama type programmes. 

 

 

Is this the same "they?"

 

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4 hours ago, Arnold_Lane said:

Who are they?

Is this the same "they?"

 

'They' are the people in charge. And that's not necessarily who you think.

The governments of course, but really the elite 0.05%, at the top in the IMF, World banks, wealthy doners, Lobbyists, media, etc; the puppet-masters who influence the people we like to think are in charge. 

They meet up at World Economic Forums and Summits, and conferences like Bilderberg and Davos. 

 

Do you never look things up for yourself?

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