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So What's Neoliberalism?

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23 minutes ago, Kelvin Phlats said:

Neoliberalism and postmodernism, an unholy alliance, great read this.

 

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Hi Kelvin, I'd be interested in reading that, but the link you provided doesn't work

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2 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

ukip managed to achieve a tremendous amount with a few MEPs. 

 

But globalisation has clearly improved the lot of billions. Do you want the gap between us and the developing to remain as large as it was in the 50s and 60s?

British people had had a terrible time in the war but came out of it with an abundance of hope. The Labour government rewarded them with a new welfare state, promising to take care of them 'from the cradle to the grave.' This brought about the NHS, paid for with National Insurance contributions but free at the point of use This included free hospitals, free doctors and healthcare, dentistry and glasses, regular health checks and free milk, orange juice and vitamins for children. There was an emphasis on improving education with new methods, secondary schooling for all to 15 (pre war kids could leave school at 12) and free higher education and grants for living costs. There were improvements to working  conditions and practices enshrined in law. Better pensions, and help / benefits to cover sickness and unemployment, (although unemployment was considered shameful as there was plenty of work.) Workhouses were finally closed down and  elderly people unable to cope at home had the free services of health visitors and home helps, or could go and be cared for in free state run care homes. 

 

These changes truly transformed the lives of the working class beyond all recognition, and was arguably the greatest leap forward they had enjoyed in history. 

 

There is no reason why similar programmes could not be introduced in developing countries with the political will to do it, rather than the piecemeal approach of 'aid' and charity etc. They are victims of much mismanagement, and Imperial colonialism, but they are often rich in resources, however the issues are complicated and would need another thread to unravel, but I believe to have such poverty in these countries in the 21st century is simply unacceptable. 

 

It would probably look very different as conditions and problems vary and it would take time. China seems to have made rapid progress in helping its own people out of poverty, (there was mass starvation in the 60's) and they are also making headway in helping other developing countries out of poverty with new methods of their own. There is self interest in this no doubt, and we will have to await the long term results, but I personally believe it is possible, and is something we should all be working towards.

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31 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Hi Kelvin, I'd be interested in reading that, but the link you provided doesn't work

OK mate, it is very informative and sets it out in a way I can understand it, although vaguely, I'll try something else.

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36 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Hi Kelvin, I'd be interested in reading that, but the link you provided doesn't work

I just put the title 'Neoliberalism and postmodernism an unholy alliance' into google search and it came up.

Reading it now. 

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38 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Hi Kelvin, I'd be interested in reading that, but the link you provided doesn't work

Try googling this, 

The unholy alliance of neoliberalism and postmodernism Hans van Zon

 

It worked for me, it's the top answer.

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1 minute ago, Kelvin Phlats said:

Try googling this, 

The unholy alliance of neoliberalism and postmodernism Hans van Zon

 

It worked for me, it's the top answer.

Yep, sorry, that's it.

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37 minutes ago, Anna B said:

British people had had a terrible time in the war but came out of it with an abundance of hope. The Labour government rewarded them with a new welfare state, promising to take care of them 'from the cradle to the grave.' This brought about the NHS, paid for with National Insurance contributions but free at the point of use This included free hospitals, free doctors and healthcare, dentistry and glasses, regular health checks and free milk, orange juice and vitamins for children. There was an emphasis on improving education with new methods, secondary schooling for all to 15 (pre war kids could leave school at 12) and free higher education and grants for living costs. There were improvements to working  conditions and practices enshrined in law. Better pensions, and help / benefits to cover sickness and unemployment, (although unemployment was considered shameful as there was plenty of work.) Workhouses were finally closed down and  elderly people unable to cope at home had the free services of health visitors and home helps, or could go and be cared for in free state run care homes. 

 

These changes truly transformed the lives of the working class beyond all recognition, and was arguably the greatest leap forward they had enjoyed in history. 

 

Free this, free that, free the other....

 

It's not hard to see the origins of people generations on filled with entitlement syndrome.... The expanding numbers of people whom, without any genuine necessity, are perfectly happy to let others pay their lifestyle so they don't have to bother with all that tiresome work other mugs do..... The pockets of irresponsible parents who think it's perfectly acceptable to copulate, break up the relationship, disappear off the face of the Earth because hey never mind, the state looks after the kids for them.....

 

We are no longer in wartime. The pot smoking free love of the 60s is over. Population has exploded, the world has shrunk, business is globalised and those public services set up to support the nation and restore lives during times of genuine crisis have become totally wasteful, inefficient, overblown, taken for granted and abused by too many with no sense of responsibility for their actions.

 

They are all unfit for purpose and been bloated well beyond anything that could be deemed essential provision as anticipated in their origins. 

 

In my opinion the labour government post-war had absolutely no right to make such "promises". Support when one is on their uppers or for genuine medical/disability need is one thing but to declare all and everyone will be looked after from cradle to grave is another.

 

The world changes all the time. Things evolve.

 

Anyway, 5 pages in and I'm still without answer of specific reasons why neoliberalism is allegedly so bad. I've asked questions as to what exactly is wrong with its principles and what exactly is the workable and proven alternative which is so much better.  However, all I seem to be reading is multiple long winded commentary boiled down to.....we should all have voted Labour, Labour are the answer to fixing everything, Corbyn could have been our saviour and all who disagree are wrong. 

Edited by ECCOnoob

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53 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Free this, free that, free the other....

 

It's not hard to see the origins of people generations on filled with entitlement syndrome.... The expanding numbers of people whom, without any genuine necessity, are perfectly happy to let others pay their lifestyle so they don't have to bother with all that tiresome work other mugs do..... The pockets of irresponsible parents who think it's perfectly acceptable to copulate, break up the relationship, disappear off the face of the Earth because hey never mind, the state looks after the kids for them.....

 

We are no longer in wartime. The pot smoking free love of the 60s is over. Population has exploded, the world has shrunk, business is globalised and those public services set up to support the nation and restore lives during times of genuine crisis have become totally wasteful, inefficient, overblown, taken for granted and abused by too many with no sense of responsibility for their actions.

 

They are all unfit for purpose and been bloated well beyond anything that could be deemed essential provision as anticipated in their origins. 

 

In my opinion the labour government post-war had absolutely no right to make such "promises". Support when one is on their uppers or for genuine medical/disability need is one thing but to declare all and everyone will be looked after from cradle to grave is another.

 

The world changes all the time. Things evolve.

 

Anyway, 5 pages in and I'm still without answer of specific reasons why neoliberalism is allegedly so bad. I've asked questions as to what exactly is wrong with its principles and what exactly is the workable and proven alternative which is so much better.  However, all I seem to be reading is multiple long winded commentary boiled down to.....we should all have voted Labour, Labour are the answer to fixing everything, Corbyn could have been our saviour and all who disagree are wrong. 

Free at the point of use. There's a big difference. Actually it's everybody looking after everybody else. Something to be admired I would have thought. 

 

What's wrong with neoliberalism? It's based on selfishness. It's all about greed, its the philosophy of the 'I'm all right Jack. so f...k you' brigade. 

 

The alternative is kindness, care and working together for the benefit of all.

 

Edited by Anna B

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21 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Free at the point of use. There's a big difference. Actually it's everybody looking after everybody else. Something to be admired I would have thought. 

 

What's wrong with neoliberalism? It's based on selfishness. It's all about greed, its the philosophy of the 'I'm all right Jack. so f...k you' brigade. 

 

The alternative is kindness, care and working together for the benefit of all.

 

I'm pleased you edited that post Anna and took out the personal attack on the poster although that would have been classic postmodernism, in actual fact saying there's really only my view that's acceptable, all others are wrong and the person who says anything opposite to my view will be attacked and/ or ridiculed.

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13 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Free at the point of use. There's a big difference. Actually it's everybody looking after everybody else. Something to be admired I would have thought. 

What's wrong with neoliberalism? It's based on selfishness. It's all about greed, its the philosophy of the 'I'm all right Jack. so f...k you.'

Oh dear I think your prejudice is showing.... 

So just a load more generic nonsense then.

 

No comments on why exactly free trade and free commerce is such a bad thing. No comment on why there should controls on pricing.  No comment on why we should be restricted in our business practices and limited as to where and how we trade. No comment so why exactly freedom of choice to consumers is so bad. No comment on why exactly globalisation and ability to purchase goods and services from a range of locations is detrimental rather than a  benefit.  No comment as to why privatisation and competition of previously government owned monopoly isnt actually a good thing. No comment on why you feel it is preferred to have heavy-handed government control, dependency and interference in our  econonomic and personal lives. Still no actual comment as to what the credible and proven alternative is.

 

You disparaging mention my supposed prejudice but you were the one who made a point of starting this debate thread yet all you seem to have done is use it to make extremely blunt over simplistic points whilst ignoring any actual questions and challenges.

 

I think I'm pretty much done with this. I'm not convinced there was any intention to debate the substance of neoliberalism and it's just one of many long winded disguised threads pushing the same tired old arguments about how wonderful the failed left of Labour are. 

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1 hour ago, Kelvin Phlats said:

Try googling this, 

The unholy alliance of neoliberalism and postmodernism Hans van Zon

 

It worked for me, it's the top answer.

Thanks for that

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2 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Thanks for that

My pleasure, it's all interesting stuff.

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