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Nhs Bureaucracy And Vaccines

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7 minutes ago, silverglade5 said:

This world gets more silly every day. There is an urgent need for experienced  professionals to do this work, but the current PC climate is such that people like Ridgewalk's wife would probably be so demoralised that they wouldn't be prepared to carry on with their applications.  This is work that clearly should be carried out by competent people, but to require a nurse of c.40 years experience to jump through the hoops described is in my opinion frankly absurd

They are not being asked to jump through hoops.  They are being brought to the up to date standards that is required by the regulations and the law and the within the risked assessed liabilities expected to perform the role.

 

A competent and long experienced nursing professional should be well versed in such continual mandatory training thoughout their career and should hardly be put off from having to do more when they sign up to re-enter the role again. 

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6 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

To do what?

 

The first vaccine only got approved on or around 8 December.  The Second approved vaccaine only started to get approved in the past few days.  

 

Training costs money.  Recruitment programmes costs money and resources.   Why would they start something before any approval gets signed off.  If the regulator rejected Pfizer or Astra or both it could have been months and month before any other vaccine got developed.   What were they supposed to do.  Just have all these people sat on the books doing nothing?   These things have to be approved in stages, planned, check and signed off through various levels of hierarchy.  

 

In any event, its not like vaccinations arn't happening.   They are already taking place as we speak.  

But we haven't got enough people to do them. 40k a week at the moment, that's 2 years to get half the population done. If we are wanting 1m plus a week we are going to need more people to vaccinate people, and the government have thought about once they've got the vaccine, not before.

 

They're already trying to cover up further ineptitude by saying the haven't got enough vaccines but have been slapped down by both manufacturers.

 

EDIT - so all the other paperwork - the diversity training etc etc, can only be done when we have a specific vaccine? Behave.

Edited by tinfoilhat

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5 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

But we haven't got enough people to do them. 40k a week at the moment, that's 2 years to get half the population done. If we are wanting 1m plus a week we are going to need more people to vaccinate people, and the government have thought about once they've got the vaccine, not before.

 

They're already trying to cover up further ineptitude by saying the haven't got enough vaccines but have been slapped down by both manufacturers.

 

EDIT - so all the other paperwork - the diversity training etc etc, can only be done when we have a specific vaccine? Behave.

Bolded bit - exactly, @tinfoilhat 👍

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9 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

But we haven't got enough people to do them. 40k a week at the moment, that's 2 years to get half the population done. If we are wanting 1m plus a week we are going to need more people to vaccinate people, and the government have thought about once they've got the vaccine, not before.

 

They're already trying to cover up further ineptitude by saying the haven't got enough vaccines but have been slapped down by both manufacturers.

Well maybe that's why they are recruiting then? 

 

What is your obession with BEFORE the vaccine.   Why on earth do you think the NHS would or even could spend money on a huge recruitment drive and training programme for a vaccination that didn't even exist.   Have you stopped for one second to think that until such was approved and signed off the register - they would not even know what type of vaccine, its make up, its risks, its side effects, how to adminster, when to administer.....  Do i need to go on?

 

Vaccines are happening.  Right now.   The recruitment is happening. Right now.  What more do you seriously expect to happen in less than three weeks.   You really need to get an understanding of what is involved in the organisation of these things.  The contractual arrangements and legal agreements alone can take days of work. 

 

There is no magic wand that gets waved.

Edited by ECCOnoob

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17 minutes ago, silverglade5 said:

This world gets more silly every day. There is an urgent need for experienced  professionals to do this work, but the current PC climate is such that people like Ridgewalk's wife would probably be so demoralised that they wouldn't be prepared to carry on with their applications.  This is work that clearly should be carried out by competent people, but to require a nurse of c.40 years experience to jump through the hoops described is in my opinion frankly absurd. 

There's nothing 'PC' about keeping people's sensitive data safe and being able to identify safeguarding concerns. Doing a day's (max) e-learning on those kinds of things is totally proportionate.

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1 minute ago, ECCOnoob said:

Well maybe that's why they are recruiting then? 

 

What is your obession with BEFORE the vaccine.   Why on earth do you think the NHS would or even could spend money on a huge recruitment drive and training programme for a vaccination that didn't even exist.   Have you stopped for one second to think that until such was approved and signed off the register - they would not even know what type of vaccine, its make up, its risks, its side effects, how to adminster, when to administer.....  Do i need to go on?

 

Vaccines are happening.  Right now.   The recruitment is happening. Right now.  What more do you seriously expect to happen in less than three weeks.   You really need to get an understanding of what is involved in the organisation of these things.

 

There is no magic wand that gets waved.

But we knew a vaccination was coming, Christ it was the only thing that was going to get us to normality. 

 

I'm not a moron. I know these things take organising but I'm gobsmacked we've waited until we have vaccines in a fridge before we take on staff. 

 

You've missed my EDIT- you're getting bogged down in vaccine-specific training and not the rest which could have easily been done a month ago.

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12 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

 

 

EDIT - so all the other paperwork - the diversity training etc etc, can only be done when we have a specific vaccine? Behave.

The diversity training is a nice peg to hang a sceptical hat on. It’s a distraction too. Take a look at all the other bits of training. They are mostly essential, those that aren’t essential are desirable.

 

I agree that we are up against it recruiting enough vaccinators, but that doesn’t excuse poor, potentially damaging recruitment procedures.

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12 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

But we knew a vaccination was coming, Christ it was the only thing that was going to get us to normality. 

 

I'm not a moron. I know these things take organising but I'm gobsmacked we've waited until we have vaccines in a fridge before we take on staff. 

 

You've missed my EDIT- you're getting bogged down in vaccine-specific training and not the rest which could have easily been done a month ago.

No. I have addressed it.

 

I have already said that there is no way that finite NHS monies would be spent on a mass recruitment programme and training until such time as a vaccine was approved.  Do you really think it feesible to recruit and train all these people on say, diversity/safeguarding etc and then have them sat there for weeks or months until (or even if) approval gets granted.  What then?    Get them all back for a second batch of training on the specifics, by which time many will have forgotten the contents of the first training....   Hardly resourceful that. 

 

Now approval has been granted.  Now the vaccines physically exist - we can get people in, get them trained and immediately get them administering. 

 

I really dont see the issue.

Edited by ECCOnoob

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1 minute ago, Pettytom said:

The diversity training is a nice peg to hang a sceptical hat on. It’s a distraction too. Take a look at all the other bits of training. They are mostly essential, those that aren’t essential are desirable.

 

I agree that we are up against it recruiting enough vaccinators, but that doesn’t excuse poor, potentially damaging recruitment procedures.

You're an expert, I'm not. Out of the long list supplied by the BBC and the OP, how much is vaccine specific? How much can only be done when we know exactly which vaccine will be used? How much of said list is - for want of a better description - "general medical stuff" that a retired, nurse, dentist or other health professional could do? 

 

Really, I'm not against vigorous recruitment procedures , I just don't understand why theyre starting now. I'm not asking for ex-debenhams employees to stand outside under a tent jabbing people without training, I just don't know why we've waited.

 

And, to finish, how long will it be before serco get a contract to do it, and how long will it be before the military have to get dragged in? I won't be surprised if either of the above happen.

7 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

No. I have addressed it.

 

I have already said that there is no way that finite NHS monies would be spent on a mass recruitment programme and training until such time as a vaccine was approved.  Do you really think it feesible to recruit and train all these people on say, diversity/safeguarding etc and then have them sat their for weeks or months until (or even if) its was approval was granted.  What then?    Get them all back for a second batch of training on the specifics, by which time many will have forgotten the contents of the first training....   Hardly resourceful that. 

How much is it costing to furlough millions each month? More or less than compiling, vetting and training a list of people for vaccination?

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29 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

You're an expert, I'm not. Out of the long list supplied by the BBC and the OP, how much is vaccine specific? How much can only be done when we know exactly which vaccine will be used? How much of said list is - for want of a better description - "general medical stuff" that a retired, nurse, dentist or other health professional could do? 

 

Really, I'm not against vigorous recruitment procedures , I just don't understand why theyre starting now. I'm not asking for ex-debenhams employees to stand outside under a tent jabbing people without training, I just don't know why we've waited.

 

 

I’m no more expert than you Tinny, but I am happy to defer to those who are expert. I guess we haven’t waited really, the vaccine was only approved last week. Recruitment was taking place before then.

 

I’ve done quite a few of those online training and assess things for various jobs in the past. They don’t take very long to do, so they aren’t really a barrier to people getting started on the real job. 
 

I hope they don’t put people off, there is a lot of work to do.

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I worked as a trained nurse for 25 years followed by 20 years in advice, dependency and social housing so have done these courses and refreshers many times. However, if I was in a position to volunteer I would expect the NHS to provide up to date training to make sure I was equipped with current information and techniques before letting me loose. I wonder if they check injection techniques how I learned all those years ago-oranges 

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4 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

I’m no more expert than you Tinny, but I am happy to defer to those who are expert. I guess we haven’t waited really, the vaccine was only approved last week. Recruitment was taking place before then.

 

I’ve done quite a few of those online training and assess things for various jobs in the past. They don’t take very long to do, so they aren’t really a barrier to people getting started on the real job. 
 

I hope they don’t put people off, there is a lot of work to do.

I think we're all on the same page i suppise. The more the merrier, Israel are looking to vaccinate 150k within a week if I read it right. If you want to help, here's a link.

 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/join-the-nhs-covid-19-vaccine-team/

 

I've got a first aid badge I did at cubs, and have watched the box set of House. I got up to the point where Karev left on Greys Anatomy so there are some gaps in my training.

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