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Nhs Bureaucracy And Vaccines

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My wife has signed up ( applied) to become a Health Protection Vaccinator. She retired a couple of years ago after almost 40 years as a first level  nurse.

 

Given that it is frequently suggested that the Covid 19 crisis is tantamount to a " war" and that vaccines need to be rolled out in order to save lives you'd think that expediency would be key.

 

These are some of the courses she's  had to complete online in order to stick a needle into someone's arm:

 

Conflict Revolution.

Data Security Awareness.

Data Security Awareness Survey

Equality and Diversity and Human Rights

Preventing Radicalisation. Basic Prevent Awareness

Preventing Radicalisation Awareness of Prevent ( Level 3)

Safeguarding Adults Level 1

Safeguarding Adults Level 2

Safeguarding Children Level 1

Safeguarding Children Level 2

Health Education England Learning Plan

 

There are another 10 on top of that list to complete

 

When she's done the above, there are four additional courses

 

Given that we are in a national crisis I wonder how many willing and able people have been deterred from applying because of the bureaucracy involved, , and how relevant some of it is ?

 

Will there be capacity to administer the millions of vaccines needed to save lives ?

 

 

 

 

 

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@Ridgewalk I think this crass stupidity has been mentioned before, but maybe I'm thinking of another forum. I totally agree that someone needs to get a grip on this, but sadly, it is administered by 'civil servants' who seem to think everyone needs to be treated like a child, even when these people probably have double the life experience, and seemingly triple the intelligence of themselves.

 

Sadly, this 'control freakery' doesn't just apply in this situation, but wherever these clowns think they know better - even though they don't!!

 

/rant

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I cannot find any  job title called "Health Protection Vaccinator" linked with the current NHS  and Government documentation.

 

It concerns me that information surrounding vaccination should be current, up to date and sourced and should be free from amongst  other things, exaggeration. This can all too often lead to knee jerk reaction that makes an already difficult job of immunizing and protecting our population impossible.  The aftermath of MMR  is still with us.

 

The documentation below  is current as of date of posting and also contains links to the role of Vaccinator Immuniser etc.

 

NHS - Covid-19 Vaccination e-learning for Healthcare (2021)

 

Government- COVID-19 vaccination programme (Dec 31 2020)

 

Public Health England COVID-19 vaccinator competency assessment tool/9 (Dec 31 2020)

 

 

 

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I guess the NHS is covering all bases! The ambulance chasers would have a field day if things go wrong.

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@Annie BynnolIrrespective of whatever is contained in those documents you refer to, Ridgewalk has provided first-hand knowledge of the carp people have to endure to just attempt to make a difference.

2 minutes ago, zaci said:

I guess the NHS is covering all bases! The ambulance chasers would have a field day if things go wrong.

Some of those items in the original post have nothing to do with that crowd of wasters, just pen-pushers trying to justify their inflated salaries.

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The data protection ones are standard everywhere now, due to the big fines made by the ICO for data breaches, and health data is very sensitive, so those two make complete sense. As do the safeguarding ones - if she rolls up someone's sleeve and they're covered in bruises, she needs to know what to ask and what to do. Conflict Resolution (not Revolution, although that would be interesting!) I can kind of see, because people who get really anxious about injections might kick off a bit. The others I can't see any need for, especially the Prevent ones. Do they think someone is going to shout "Death to the Infidel!" when they get their vaccine?

 

That said, e-learning modules tend to be quite basic and short. How long did it take her, out of interest? I would guess it should take maybe half a day, certainly no more than a day.

Edited by Delbow

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Here's the BBC view of it.

 

BBC News - Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55516277

 

Why didn't they do it in August or September or even November? "Right we've got a vaccine, we need to get it out there. We should hire and train people". In January!!!!

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In my opinion threads like this are just a extended version of "waa waa health and safety gone mad..."

 

This is not so simple as just "stick a needle into someone's arm".  If it was then they would be scooping up junkies off the street to help out - after all many of them are well skilled in administering injectons.

 

Several of the courses listed are absolutely standard for all employers no matter what the circumstances.  Equality & Diversity is vital in view of recent events where one single action or even a simple turn of phrase could lead to mass complaint, outrage and legal action.    Same with the redicalisation which for the record is not so simple as being wary of peole from a certain race in case they start shouting "infidel".   It covers a whole range of potentially extreme right wing identifiers which could be rife in patients when dealing with an already highly contentious vaccine programme and crowds of people who even today are still denying that such disease and control methods are genuine. 

 

Safeguarding too is standard learning for protection of those vulnerable children, learning disability and elderly adults who will be subject to the vaccine and may be a high risk of being administered the same under duress, extreme control or harrassment by their parents/guardians/parter/spouses.  Despite what the cocky dentist says in his BBC interview - children may very well be part of the group he has to administer to-  so its quite right that he undergoes such training.

 

I can guarantee the NHS dont like "bureaucracy" any more than the man on the street.  However, they are also smart enough to know there is a good reason these training regimes exist and the consequences if they are not fulfilled either by breach of regulation, criminal negligence or civil litigation action. 

 

Those who feel put off by having to do some comprehensive training before they are given licence to conduct mass vaccinations in people quite frankly shouldn't be the type of people signing up to the do the job.   Personally, I am especially appaulled by some of the whiny comments from the the BBC interviewee Dentist whom, as an already registered dental professional subject to the mandatory standards of the GMC with all its CPD requirements and presumably a holder of various negligence insurance policies, really should know better and the reasons why such "bureaucracy" needs to exist.

 

Frustrating it may well be, but its the job.

 

Emergency or not, people will expect a FULLY trained professional undertaking their jab.   We all know full well that the second any one of these volunteers put a foot wrong the fallout and inevitable claim would all land on the NHS.   There would be no "....oh he was only a volunteer trying to help...."  get out clause.

 

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11 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

In my opinion threads like this are just a extended version of "waa waa health and safety gone mad..."

 

This is not so simple as just "stick a needle into someone's arm".  If it was then they would be scooping up junkies off the street to help out - after all many of them are well skilled in administering injectons.

 

Several of the courses listed are absolutely standard for all employers no matter what the circumstances.  Equality & Diversity is vital in view of recent events where one single action or even a simple turn of phrase could lead to mass complaint, outrage and legal action.    Same with the redicalisation which for the record is not so simple as being wary of peole from a certain race in case they start shouting "infidel".   It covers a whole range of potentially extreme right wing identifiers which could be rife in patients when dealing with an already highly contentious vaccine programme and crowds of people who even today are still denying that such disease and control methods are genuine. 

 

Safeguarding too is standard learning for protection of those vulnerable children, learning disability and elderly adults who will be subject to the vaccine and may be a high risk of being administered the same under duress, extreme control or harrassment by their parents/guardians/parter/spouses.  Despite what the cocky dentist says in his BBC interview - children may very well be part of the group he has to administer to-  so its quite right that he undergoes such training.

 

I can guarantee the NHS dont like "bureaucracy" any more than the man on the street.  However, they are also smart enough to know there is a good reason these training regimes exist and the consequences if they are not fulfilled either by breach of regulation, criminal negligence or civil litigation action. 

 

Those who feel put off by having to do some comprehensive training before they are given licence to conduct mass vaccinations in people quite frankly shouldn't be the type of people signing up to the do the job.   Personally, I am especially appaulled by some of the whiny comments from the the BBC interviewee Dentist whom, as an already registered dental professional subject to the mandatory standards of the GMC with all its CPD requirements and presumably a holder of various negligence insurance policies, really should know better and the reasons why such "bureaucracy" needs to exist.

 

Frustrating it may well be, but its the job.

 

Emergency or not, people will expect a FULLY trained professional undertaking their jab.   We all know full well that the second any one of these volunteers put a foot wrong the fallout and inevitable claim would all land on the NHS.   There would be no "....oh he was only a volunteer trying to help...."  get out clause.

 

But why wait til now to do it?

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This world gets more silly every day. There is an urgent need for experienced  professionals to do this work, but the current PC climate is such that people like Ridgewalk's wife would probably be so demoralised that they wouldn't be prepared to carry on with their applications.  This is work that clearly should be carried out by competent people, but to require a nurse of c.40 years experience to jump through the hoops described is in my opinion frankly absurd. 

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1 minute ago, tinfoilhat said:

But why wait til now to do it?

To do what?

 

The first vaccine only got approved on or around 8 December.  The Second approved vaccaine only started to get approved in the past few days.  

 

Training costs money.  Recruitment programmes costs money and resources.   Why would they start something before any approval gets signed off.  If the regulator rejected Pfizer or Astra or both it could have been months and month before any other vaccine got developed.   What were they supposed to do.  Just have all these people sat on the books doing nothing?   These things have to be approved in stages, planned, check and signed off through various levels of hierarchy.  

 

In any event, its not like vaccinations arn't happening.   They are already taking place as we speak.  

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2 hours ago, RollingJ said:

@Annie BynnolIrrespective of whatever is contained in those documents you refer to, Ridgewalk has provided first-hand knowledge of the carp people have to endure to just attempt to make a difference.

Some of those items in the original post have nothing to do with that crowd of wasters, just pen-pushers trying to justify their inflated salaries.

That’s simply not true. 
 

I’m delighted that the recruitment for vaccinators is being carried out in a professional manner. Anyone in such settings should have proper regard for safeguarding, for care of personal data and they also have responsibilities under the prevent programme.

 

Some people might be happy to be vaccinated by poorly trained, poorly vetted staff. I’m not amongst them.

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