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No New Petrol Or Diesel Cars After 2030-Will There Be A U Turn?

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17 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Sheffield has one. The roads are packed. I think it's a change of mindset more than anything.

 

 

Road network in this city is particularly crap tho, which certainly adds to the problems.  While we do have a tram here, the network is kinda limited you must admit. 

The main issue is we're the only ones with something, everyone else has got absolutely nothing, so Yorkshire as a whole isn't actually that good.

12 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

It might remove the need, but people generally put their own convenience and self interest over doing their bit to reduce congestion and the benefits that brings. They might say they dont use public transport or walk or cycle because its not practical,  but I'm of the opinion that however easy other options are, they would just jump in the car and drive, and get all upset about how busy the roads are....

True, but it needs to exist in the first place before you can work on tackling why people don't use it enough.

You won't get everyone using it, but it can be effective at cutting down on pollution spikes, like those caused during rush hour.

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Apologies if this has been posted already


99% of the general public won't care whats under the bonnet of their car.  They just want to know how much it costs to run.
At the point where an electric car will do the same range and  costs the same amount as their current petrol/diesel counterpart, they'll switch.
You don't have to fill your tank every day, so why would you need to charge your car every day.

As uptake increases, you'll go to the shop and plug in while you're wandering round buying stuff.  Will take 30 seconds to plug in and walk away instead of standing there on a dirty forecourt pumping fuel for 5 mins.

It's the range anxiety that's getting most people.  That's why people will want to plug their car in every night, but it's not nessacery.  There is a revolution coming.  Whether it's electric, or something else.  One thing is clear, it won't be petrol or diesel.  If the cost of a new electric car is too expensive, then work closer to home.  We've proved over these lockdowns that most folks do have the ability to work from home.  So do you actually really need the car?

 

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23 minutes ago, soopah said:

99% of the general public won't care whats under the bonnet of their car. 

Very much this.   I've seen a marked increase in people not knowing or caring what's under the bonnet, having problems that could have been avoided with a bit of basic care and maintenance - especially amongst young drivers.

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1 hour ago, geared said:

Road network in this city is particularly crap

is it?

 

i popped into the city centre last night, on my way home, to pick up a few early presents.

 

no problems at all getting to the Devonshire green car park, from the Parkway.

 

no problems at all getting back out and down to Meadowhead.

 

the main roundabouts were a little busy, but apart from that it was all very easy.

 

(this was all between 4:30 and 6pm)

 

how much easier does it need to get?

 

 

Edited by ads36

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39 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

Very much this.   I've seen a marked increase in people not knowing or caring what's under the bonnet, having problems that could have been avoided with a bit of basic care and maintenance - especially amongst young drivers.

That is the way of the world these days though. It is all about the end user.

 

People buy thing, know how to use it and when it  breaks they have "people" to sort it out for them.

 

I know not so long ago there was the typical suburban scene of driver's on a Sunday afternoon out on the front of their houses tinkering to keep their rustbucket vehicles running...... topping up this, adjusting that, replacing the other..... and to think the manufacturers and retailers had the nerve to sell such products!

 

We are very much in a throw away Society and expect things to just work.  That is trickling down to vehicles too.  Buy it, use it, replace it.

 

Add on the fact that over the decades vehicles, particularly electric ones, have become increasingly complicated I don't think there is such a thing as basic maintenance anymore.

28 minutes ago, ads36 said:

is it?

 

i popped into the city centre last night, on my way home, to pick up a few early presents.

 

no problems at all getting to the Devonshire green car park, from the Parkway.

 

no problems at all getting back out and down to Meadowhead.

 

the main roundabouts were a little busy, but apart from that it was all very easy.

 

(this was all between 4:30 and 6pm)

 

how much easier does it need to get?

 

 

Try it when there is not a pandemic and half the city's population is working or isolating at home. Try it when all the businesses are fully open and operational and it's not so easy.

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30 minutes ago, ads36 said:

is it?

 

i popped into the city centre last night, on my way home, to pick up a few early presents.

 

no problems at all getting to the Devonshire green car park, from the Parkway.

 

no problems at all getting back out and down to Meadowhead.

 

the main roundabouts were a little busy, but apart from that it was all very easy.

 

(this was all between 4:30 and 6pm)

 

how much easier does it need to get?

 

 

You're so quick to forget how bad the roads were last year prior to Covid?

 

Gotta be 50% less cars on the road at peak times right now.

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3 hours ago, geared said:

You're so quick to forget how bad the roads were last year prior to Covid?

 

Gotta be 50% less cars on the road at peak times right now.

I agree 100% : the problem is congestion , not the road layout/network.

 

The way to beat congestion is to improve the alternatives. We've spent the last 70 years trying to build enough roads to keep traffic moving, and congestion is as bad as ever.

 

Speaking of Congestion, and alternative fuel cars (the thread topic, after all), EV's will do naff-all to reduce congestion... 

Edited by ads36

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4 hours ago, geared said:

Road network in this city is particularly crap tho, which certainly adds to the problems.  While we do have a tram here, the network is kinda limited you must admit. 

The main issue is we're the only ones with something, everyone else has got absolutely nothing, so Yorkshire as a whole isn't actually that good.

True, but it needs to exist in the first place before you can work on tackling why people don't use it enough.

You won't get everyone using it, but it can be effective at cutting down on pollution spikes, like those caused during rush hour.

Not sure I agree with that, no better or worse than any other city I've driven in. They're all full of one way systems, and packed with traffic, and if you aren't familiar with which lane you need to be in, or which routes might be a bit less busy, or might be longer but quicker, then they're even worse.

 

The tram network is limited, and if you live in south west Sheffield, its non existent. Which is a real shame, the volume of traffic up and down the Ecclesall, Abbeydale and Fulwood Rd corridors each day is immense. The impact of a clean and efficient tram service to the south west suburbs would be considerable, for both congestion and the local economy in my opinion.

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Post by Soopah:

This bit...

"We've proved over these lockdowns that most folks do have the ability to work from home.  So do you actually really need the car?" 

 

Regarding car use, there is a lot more to using a car than just for  work purposes.

 

As an aside-

Electric car battery plant to create 3000 jobs.

"A town in Northumberland is set to be the site of the UK's first "gigaplant" manufacturing electric car batteries.

Britishvolt said the plant in Blyth would create up to 3,000 jobs, with a further 5,000 expected in the wider supply chain.

Construction is due to start next summer, with production of the lithium-ion batteries by the end of 2023"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-55263255

 

Good to see some British jobs created in respect of the electric vehicles. Hope many more jobs are created as we exit the current situation.

Edited by Janus
Addition news item

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7 hours ago, Janus said:

Post by Soopah:

This bit...

"We've proved over these lockdowns that most folks do have the ability to work from home.  So do you actually really need the car?" 

 

Regarding car use, there is a lot more to using a car than just for  work purposes.

 

As an aside-

Electric car battery plant to create 3000 jobs.

"A town in Northumberland is set to be the site of the UK's first "gigaplant" manufacturing electric car batteries.

Britishvolt said the plant in Blyth would create up to 3,000 jobs, with a further 5,000 expected in the wider supply chain.

Construction is due to start next summer, with production of the lithium-ion batteries by the end of 2023"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-55263255

 

Good to see some British jobs created in respect of the electric vehicles. Hope many more jobs are created as we exit the current situation.

True, there is more to car use than just going to work.  However, maybe it's time to look at what peoples continuous requirements are, instead of fringe use. 
If 95% of the time it's just you travelling on your own somewhere, you don't need the big SUV just because twice a year you pull a caravan.
Car share for a lot of people would make sense, especially if the cost of ownership will be high initially.
I'm guilty of this myself, I've got a  big 8 seater van thing, and it was relevant as I was out mountain biking a couple of times a week, had family, dog etc.  The only time the thing was empty was my journey to work.
I've not been out biking as much, and with lockdown we've not been going out as a family so I've been using the wife's city car. 

It does look like most people buy cars based on what they might do, not based on what they actually do.

Maybe there will be more calls for things like that Citroen Ami.  Only does 30ish mph, 40 miles on a charge, but costs £6k.  If your daily usage is travelling 10 miles to work on your own and parking in a car park all day, do you really need anything more?
I think that they said in France, 14 year olds can drive them as they are classed as a quadricycle and it costs them something like 30 euros a month all in.  If you need something bigger or flashier for the weekend, hire one.

 

Like the video with Chris Harris said, national grid are increasing energy creation at the same rate as electric car uptake.  If people are using smart chargers at their homes that can communicate with the grid to make sure they charge at clean periods, or low demand periods then it won't be an issue.
 

Edited by soopah

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And in a lot of cases it's "Petrol Heads" who are kicking up the most noise.  I'd group myself in with them tbh, I love cars, engines etc, think, dream, breathe cars.

But modern cars sound crap.  F1 sounds crap.  People who drive up and down Redmires road with their fancy multi clutch gearboxes making odd noises when it shifts - Sounds crap.
People with small engined Fords who make them pop and bang - Sounds especially crap. 
They're all artificial sounds anyway.   Road cars that pop and bang aren't doing it because the exhaust is hot and they're overfuelling on overrun.  The computer is making it do it.
Some cars have artificial engine noise pumped into the cabin via speakers. No reason electric cars can't do this.


We're still talking 10 years into the future, and most car manufacturers have had hybrids in their range for at least 5 years, so there's already plenty of hybrid cars on the market.  There are electric cars that have been available for around 5 years too,  they will be 15 years old by the time all this is made mandatory.  We already have a small industry replacing the cells and packs in batteries, electric cars included.
America have been doing it for years.  You can get kits to rebuild  the drive battery in Leafs and Prius for relatively little money.  So the age of cars and battery packs isn't much of a worry. 

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2 hours ago, soopah said:

If people are using smart chargers at their homes that can communicate with the grid to make sure they charge at clean periods, or low demand periods then it won't be an issue.
 

 

They don't currently exist do they?

So that notion kind of falls flat on it's face as we've already got a fairly substantial network of chargers that will start going whenever the user wants, not when supply is best.

 

Unless you wanna rip out everything and replace it?

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