Another Knife Attack In France

[iansheff 86]

Two people murdered, one decapitated according to the article below, the Mayor of Nice tweeted he believed it was a terrorist attack, one person arrested.

Are these two more murders in the name of religion?

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/knife-attack-reported-near-church-in-nice-two-dead/ar-BB1av3Q2?ocid=msedgntp

[butlers 259]

Stabbing at the French Consulate in Jeddah too 

1 security guard hurt.

 

Another jihadi attack on a policeman in Avignon, attacker shot dead

[L00b 441]

Was to be expected, after the media amplification of fundies' howls and Erdogan's **** stirring.

 

Same as when Farage excited the masses over "traitor politicians" (Jo Cox), more recently Priti Patel excited masses over "lefty lawyers defending asylum seekers" (knifeman arrested in London law firm), etc.

 

Some of the most excited amongst the excitable rabble can always be relied upon to eventually act.

[Ridgewalk 97]

" fundies howls " ?

Agree 100% with that Loob. Macron'has been stirring the pot recently. Grandstanding with his " Loi de Seperatism" and attacks on " communautarisme". The other day the Interior Minister was "outraged"  by seeing halal food for sale in a supermarket. Deputies walked out of Parliament after the sight of a veiled young woman.

 

France has a problem obviously. 

 

Macron is concerned about Le Pen grabbing public support so has decided to play the tough anti-Islam card.

 

No idea what " fundies howls " refers to ?

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Ridgewalk
.....

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Ridgewalk said:

" fundies howls " ?

Agree 100% with that Loob. Macron'has been stirring the pot recently. Grandstanding with his " Loi de Seperatism" and attacks on " communautarisme". The other day the Interior Minister was "outraged"  by seeing halal food for sale in a supermarket. Deputies walked out of Parliament after the sight of a veiled young woman.

 

France has a problem obviously. 

 

Macron is concerned about Le Pen grabbing public support so has decided to play the tough anti-Islam card.

 

No idea what " fundies howls " refers to ?

 

Yes, fundies howls.  At badly-drawn cartoons in a satirical magazine. Again.

 

Note that I'm not counting Erdogan's howls today, at the follow-up badly-drawn cartoons. They depict him, not Mahomet.

 

If by "Loi de separatism" you are referring to laicity (frequently dubbed 'secularism'), I haven't seen grandstanding, but a reaffirmation of this centuries-old constitutional principle, and its cross-compatibility with freedom of expression:

 

By law, freedom of speech means any belief system, religious or otherwise, is fair game for satire.

 

By law, laicity means no religion gets any treatment or attention from the State. Special or exceptional or otherwise: so far as the State is concerned, religion doesn't exist outside of someone's mind, and has no particular status or standing in law or procedure, period.

 

So fundies (fundamentalist muslims) don't get to try and force their beliefs onto Charlie Hebdo or its readership, by dictating through force of threats, what cartoons it can or can't print.

 

France doesn't have any problem with Islam. Islam does with France.

 

The new, more proselyte kind of Islam, that is, which has a real issue with laicity, since that principle stands fully and squarely across its expansionist aims.

 

Not the older Islam steeped in these republican, secular values, and which has been there without any problem for decades and longer (nor any burkahs, and there's your clue).

 

Whether it's Islam, or Judaism, or Christianity, or.... pray in your corner, keep your beliefs to yourself, stow the proselyte part of it, and all will be well. But roll it out and try to force it on people, then expect to get stamped on, as much by the state as by the vast majority of the population itself. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by L00b

[Ridgewalk 97]

22 minutes ago, L00b said:

Yes, fundies howls.  At badly-drawn cartoons in a satirical magazine. Again.

 

Note that I'm not counting Erdogan's howls today, at the follow-up badly-drawn cartoons. They depict him, not Mahomet.

 

If by "Loi de separatism" you are referring to laicity (frequently dubbed 'secularism'), I haven't seen grandstanding, but a reaffirmation of this centuries-old constitutional principle.

 

France doesn't have any problem with Islam. Islam does with France. The new, more proselyte kind, that is. Not the older Islam steeped in republican, secular values (whether metropolitan or inherited from a colonial past) that's been there without much problems for decades and longer.

 

Whether it's Islam, or Judaism, or Christianity, or.... stow the proselyte part of it, and all will be well. But roll it out and force it on people, then expect to get stamped on. It's not a hard concept.

If I was referring to secularism I would have said so.  You made an analogy between Frarage and the Joe Cox tragedy in this case I would agree with you. You've not being paying close attention to the things Macrons been saying, he did say, there's a problem with Islam, don't ask for the linky thing I haven't got it. 

 

the Loi de Seperatism IS aimed at Islam.  Do you think Macrons Interior Minister who was Incensed by seeing halal food for sale in a supermarket and the Deputies who walked out of the Chamber after seeing a young woman veiled haven't contributed to the feelings of exclusion by Muslims. 

 

Macrons let the genie out out of the bottle here. 

 

Macrons fond of talking about uniting all French people but he's not doing a good job about establishing it.

 

Perhaps social and economic exclusion may have something to do with it. However if you're a comfortably off white liberal perhaps it doesn't particularly affect you.

 

French society and it's " republican " values doesn't seem to have enough room for manoeuvre. I appreciate France is not the only country subject to terrorist attacks but it must be top of the table  for being targeted, in the west at least.

 

Multiculturalism   isn't working in France.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[frigate 10]

this is all because of a professor showing  a Cartoon of Mohammed, an image of course which is highly offensive to Muslims and leave it at that...A reminder - The subject Image was part of a class devoted to open discussion and to encourage debate concerning FREE SPEECH. 

The professor (history & Geography) was admired and appreciated by his colleagues & students and devoted to his work.  It was announced that he will receive a National Tribute in his honour. 

From a student "
He was one of the professors we had the most contact with during confinement. He was always concerned about the beliefs of his students and he was concerned with being respectful to them all the time,”continues Sandrine. Before adding: "Last year when the children had this course, they did not experience it at all as something attacking their beliefs but on the contrary as a debate and an exchange that could take place in class. 

The terrorist received a residential visa (carte de sejour) in March 2020 valid 10 years, despite being known to police in relation to Urban violence. 

[frigate 10]

Murder for a cartoon. That is so extreme. I don’t get violent when I see things that I find offensive.
It would be great if intellectual leaders in the moslem world recognised that they have a serious problem in their religion and reformed edicts to eliminate all theological justifications for such violent crime

[frigate 10]

3 hours ago, iansheff said:

Two people murdered, one decapitated according to the article below, the Mayor of Nice tweeted he believed it was a terrorist attack, one person arrested.

Are these two more murders in the name of religion?

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/knife-attack-reported-near-church-in-nice-two-dead/ar-BB1av3Q2?ocid=msedgntp

Religion which ones support this?. There is NOTHING in Christianity, Buddhism that supports this - no ambiguity in it. No debate. Nothing to say that you should kill or injure if someone casts aspersions on your religion, absolutely NOTHING. So please, get your facts right 

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 minute ago, frigate said:

Religion which ones support this?. There is NOTHING in Christianity, Buddhism that supports this - no ambiguity in it. No debate. Nothing to say that you should kill or injure if someone casts aspersions on your religion, absolutely NOTHING. So please, get your facts right 

Hmmm. 

 

Some angry bhuddists (not the one I was looking for but it will do)

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23662907

 

Here's some very intolerant  bhuddists. It's only a picture!

 

BBC News - Sri Lanka to deport Buddha tattoo British woman
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27107857

 

Angry Hindus 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/8/13/indian-journalists-assaulted-by-hindu-mob-in-new-delhi

 

Angry Christians - loads of them in America. Here's one finding out if there's a God.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/30/the-radical-unrepentant-ideology-of-abortion-clinic-killers/

 

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Ridgewalk said:

If I was referring to secularism I would have said so.  You made an analogy between Frarage and the Joe Cox tragedy in this case I would agree with you. You've not being paying close attention to the things Macrons been saying, he did say, there's a problem with Islam, don't ask for the linky thing I haven't got it. 

 

the Loi de Seperatism IS aimed at Islam.  Do you think Macrons Interior Minister who was Incensed by seeing halal food for sale in a supermarket and the Deputies who walked out of the Chamber after seeing a young woman veiled haven't contributed to the feelings of exclusion by Muslims. 

 

Macrons let the genie out out of the bottle here. 

 

Macrons fond of talking about uniting all French people but he's not doing a good job about establishing it.

 

Perhaps social and economic exclusion may have something to do with it. However if you're a comfortably off white liberal perhaps it doesn't particularly affect you.

 

French society and it's " republican " values doesn't seem to have enough room for manoeuvre. I appreciate France is not the only country subject to terrorist attacks but it must be top of the table  for being targeted, in the west at least.

 

Multiculturalism   isn't working in France

Multiculturalism is working just fine, as attested by the normalised fusion of northern african and west european cultural references, backgrounds, people, etc. in popular French culture for very many years now.

 

But it was certainly perceived as working better, when certain special interest groups were not pulling the blanket so hard and vociferously to themselves for special opening times at public pools, restriction of book choices in public libraries, special dispensations for faith...sorry, home schooling, etc.

 

If you're supportive of accomodating fundamental/hardline Muslim requirements, I can easily understand how you see this Law project to be "aimed at Islam", and that you would see France's refusal to accomodate these requirements as exclusionary inflexibility making a failure of multiculturalism.

 

It is nothing if the sort, of course. France is just reminding this strident proselyte minority, and any other would-be strident proselyte minority, that it's had enough of their noise: it is calling time on appeasement, and restating secular principles.

 

If you see references to '1905' in whatever materials you happen to be reading about this Separatism Law project, then just pause for a minute to ask yourself how much of a problem "multiculturalism" and/or "Islam" had gotten to be for France that year, which saw the introduction of the "Law on the Separation of the Churches and the State" and which the Separatism Law project is all about. Yeah, that's right : not whatsoever.

 

The hardline side of Islam is running smack against anticlericalist  principles of the French Republic. That is where the main problem lies. That genie is new (relatively) to France, when Islam isn't at all, and the letting out is getting done by imams with an agenda (paid for by wahabites no doubt).

Edited October 29, 2020 by L00b

[Ridgewalk 97]

I suppose my point is that French society seems to require a homogeneity of being and behaving and doesn't appear to have the flexibility of a modern progressive liberal democracy. In order to be a good French citizen you must shake off all forms of identity and just be French. As an atheist I welcome laïcité and separation of church and state, but it doesn't seem to equip France with an ability to accept diversity. I've given you two concrete examples of how diversity ( a dirty word for the extreme right and nationalists) isn't respected but you've not referenced them at all in your replies. 

 

Il not sure how you construe from what I've said that I'm defending hardline radical Islam other than to take a cheap shot.

 

i suppose multiculturalism works for all in France like free market capitalism works for all wealthy people. Depends what you mean by " works". Unemployment, exclusion, poverty, crime etc in the poorer areas of cities like Marseille and Paris is endemic amongst the ethnic minority population who by French thinking all enjoy equal rights. It's no surprise that a lot of the perpetrators of these lunatic  atrocities are radicalised whilst serving prison sentences for drug dealing and other crimes and end up seeking an identity that is at odds with French society. 

 

I'm not French, unlike yourself,  but spend enough time there to realise that racism is endemic, in my opinion much more than in UK.