M1 Speed Limit In Sheffield

[butlers 259]

But,Rockers you are missing the entire point of the reduction in speed .

Your belief does not trump the evidence that in very heavy traffic a reduction in speed enables smoother traffic flows

[Arnold_Lane 0]

Rockers rule, I asked you if you had emissions figures because you wrote:

 

Quote

Up the speed limit, lets get to where we're going and spend less time in anyone area  =  less pollution

Do you not understand that air pollution in this context comes from vehicle emissions?

 

I know you didn't offer emissions figures.  All you offered was the above statement which is ignorant of the facts.

 

29 minutes ago, butlers said:

But,Rockers you are missing the entire point of the reduction in speed .

Your belief does not trump the evidence that in very heavy traffic a reduction in speed enables smoother traffic flows

It's like banging your head against a brick wall.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Arnold_Lane

[Rockers rule 673]

3 hours ago, Arnold_Lane said:

 

 

It's like banging your head against a brick wall.

When I said I would be happy to let you have the last word,

I didn't expect such an Unecessary Puerile Comment. but Hey Ho!

 

 

 

[nikki-red 307]

The bickering can stop now. 
 

Cheers.

[Rockers rule 673]

14 hours ago, nikki-red said:

The bickering can stop now. 
 

Cheers.

All polite here Nikki.

18 hours ago, butlers said:

But,Rockers you are missing the entire point of the reduction in speed .

Your belief does not trump the evidence that in very heavy traffic a reduction in speed enables smoother traffic flows

The question has to be WHY is there 'Very Heavy Traffic' in that area?

The answer is because the free flowing traffic coming up from Nottingham or down from Wakefield/ Ponti has been artificially slowed down  which is hardly  conclusive in moving traffic away from that area or inproving air quality.

 

17 hours ago, Arnold_Lane said:

Rockers rule, I asked you if you had emissions figures because you wrote:

 

Do you not understand that air pollution in this context comes from vehicle emissions?

 

 

 

 

Of course pollution comes from vehicle emission, your need to infer I do not understand this basic principle is your prerogative but far from the truth.

 

How can deliberately congregating a larger number of vehicles in any one area at lower speeds 'improve' air quality??  is probably a question which people with health issues living in that area would no doubt like answering - of course the simple answer is it doesn't.

 

Keep safe.

Rocker.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Rockers rule
additional info

[Arnold_Lane 0]

39 minutes ago, Rockers rule said:

 

How can deliberately congregating a larger number of vehicles in any one area at lower speeds 'improve' air quality??  

 

Keep safe.

Rocker.

 

 

This question has been answered numerous times now.

 

One part of it being that vehicle emissions are higher at 70 mph than at 60 mph.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Arnold_Lane

[alchresearch 214]

1 hour ago, Rockers rule said:

How can deliberately congregating a larger number of vehicles in any one area at lower speeds 'improve' air quality?? 

 

Quite easily.  The M60 clockwise going to Stockport was a notorious pollution and accident and congestion spot

 

You didn't know from one day to the next whether it would be clear or if it would be stop-start crawling traffic.

 

They fitted average speed cameras, reduced the speed to 50mph and now traffic flows smoothly and efficiently and far more cleanly than before.

[butlers 259]

I can imagine post covid days,if traffic recovers, more blankets 60 's might come in.

The Festival of the Mind in town, Millennium Gallery, has a section on traffic created. pollution.

 

Is that all the M60 ,or just by the Stockport pyramid.

 

 

 

[Jim Hardie 525]

I’m instinctively with Rockers rule on this so here is my imperfect two penn’orth.

Stopping distance for the average family car at 60mph = 240 feet

Stopping distance at 70mph = 315 feet

Average car length is 14.7 feet so assuming lane one is occupied by HGVs for whom the speed limit is unchanged then:

Maximum number of cars on one mile of four lane motorway at 60mph is three lanes of 20.73 cars and at 70mph is three lanes of 16.01 cars.

So at 60mph we have 62.19 cars polluting the air for 60 seconds each and at 70mph we have 48.03 cars polluting the air for 51.43 seconds each.

Put another way we have 3,731.4 car pollutant seconds at 60mph against 2,470.2 car pollutant seconds at 70mph.

Now I don’t know how much more pollution is chucked out at 70mph than at 60mph but it would have to be more than 1.51 times as much to make a saving.

[Arnold_Lane 0]

51 minutes ago, Jim Hardie said:

I’m instinctively with Rockers rule on this so here is my imperfect two penn’orth.

Stopping distance for the average family car at 60mph = 240 feet

Stopping distance at 70mph = 315 feet

Average car length is 14.7 feet so assuming lane one is occupied by HGVs for whom the speed limit is unchanged then:

Maximum number of cars on one mile of four lane motorway at 60mph is three lanes of 20.73 cars and at 70mph is three lanes of 16.01 cars.

So at 60mph we have 62.19 cars polluting the air for 60 seconds each and at 70mph we have 48.03 cars polluting the air for 51.43 seconds each.

Put another way we have 3,731.4 car pollutant seconds at 60mph against 2,470.2 car pollutant seconds at 70mph.

Now I don’t know how much more pollution is chucked out at 70mph than at 60mph but it would have to be more than 1.51 times as much to make a saving.

Interesting analysis.

 

However, if X cars all travel an average of N miles the total emissions will be higher at 70 mph than 60 mph.  Agreed?

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Arnold_Lane

[butlers 259]

Read a bit more of the government policy today.

The reduction to 60mph at the 40 most problematic places is thier favoured answer ,otherwise it's road pricing .

Nationwide pollution from traffic is the cause of 40,000 premature deaths.

It just shows there's a problem but because we can't see it passed us unrecognised.

For diesels it's up to 20 percent more NOX  by doing 70 not 60.

Granted diesel sales gave crashed in last few years.

 

[Jim Hardie 525]

1 hour ago, Arnold_Lane said:

Interesting analysis.

 

However, if X cars all travel an average of N miles the total emissions will be higher at 70 mph than 60 mph.  Agreed?

 

 

Only if 70mph emissions are more than 1.51 greater than 60mph emissions.