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Driving Into Tram Only Section Of City Centre

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Hi everyone,

 

While driving through Sheffield city centre area at night I managed to get myself lost, and like an idiot missed a sign for tram only section of the city centre. Once I was on this section it became clear that it was not a road at all and was in fact a cobbled tram only section of the city!  In the moment I saw no obvious choice other than to drive along it  until I found a section of road to turn in to,  I'd guess roughly a few hundred metres along .

 

what a disaster! I was concerned this was a serious offence as it was not a road with tram lines but a tram only part of a city centre, and so consulted a solicitor immediately, and was advised it would only yield a potential 3 points and fine for failure to comply with a traffic sign. To me this seems light, considering. 

 

Does anyone here have any experience with this type of driving offence in Sheffield city centre?

 

Thanks for reading, it's much appreciated.

 

Forums like this are a great help for real experience related advice.

 

Paul

Edited by Paul xaman
mispelling

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Don't understand what the panic is here suspect there is more to this than you are letting on especially as the solicitor does not even seem to have offered the most basic of advice to check that the sign was in position and that it was clearly visible

 

I presume you do not mean city center itself as not sure where there is a cobbled section

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I have assumed the original poster is referring to the section between Cathedral and down to Castle Square.  

 

I have seen people before turn left at the end of York Street and head down before realising they are on the cobbled or paved section of the tram track.  

 

However I am also in agreement something else is missing from the story. I don't understand the immediate rush to consult a solicitor before any fine or other sort of action arises.  Also the advice itself seems rather dubious.  Technically, vehicles can and do legally access those parts of the Tramway to access the side streets so unless the driver travelled all the way down to where the ballast begins I'm not 100% sure what the offence was.  As other posters have said there was no advice on the signage or any sight of the area where the alleged offence took place. I don't actually know how they were able to advise you at all so quickly.

 

Even if they were 'caught' surely the explanation would simply be that they took a wrong turn, didn't realise until they were able to get back onto the next crossroad.

 

Edited by ECCOnoob

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The cobbled section is between St James Street (Cathedral) then Castle Square then Fitzalan Square/Ponds Forge and the exposed trackwork on the bridge.

 

Vehicles would have a difficult job getting access to the cobbled area from the east.

From the west a driver would need to ignore at least a dozen advisory and regulatory signs on posts and on the road and bollards before entering the cobbled area. 

There are then four possible exits onto roads (with great care). Large vans and lorries would need a police escort.

 

The reaction of the public is usually disbelief and incredulity at the stupidity of someone continuing along the tram tracks

 

However endangering pedestrians should not taken lightly. 

 

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3 hours ago, Bigal1 said:

Don't understand what the panic is here suspect there is more to this than you are letting on especially as the solicitor does not even seem to have offered the most basic of advice to check that the sign was in position and that it was clearly visible

 

I presume you do not mean city center itself as not sure where there is a cobbled section

Thanks for your response.  There really isn't anything more to it other than I assumed such a stupid episode was more of a serious offence and by the time I spoke with the solicitor found it hard to believe it was so minor. My overreaction if anything. 

 

cheers

 

 

 

2 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

I have assumed the original poster is referring to the section between Cathedral and down to Castle Square.  

 

I have seen people before turn left at the end of York Street and head down before realising they are on the cobbled or paved section of the tram track.  

 

However I am also in agreement something else is missing from the story. I don't understand the immediate rush to consult a solicitor before any fine or other sort of action arises.  Also the advice itself seems rather dubious.  Technically, vehicles can and do legally access those parts of the Tramway to access the side streets so unless the driver travelled all the way down to where the ballast begins I'm not 100% sure what the offence was.  As other posters have said there was no advice on the signage or any sight of the area where the alleged offence took place. I don't actually know how they were able to advise you at all so quickly.

 

Even if they were 'caught' surely the explanation would simply be that they took a wrong turn, didn't realise until they were able to get back onto the next crossroad.

 

Thanks for replying

 

Yes my concern was and is that the solicitor seemed to offer me this advice all too quickly. 

 

Having checked on google street view I can see there was a sign at the corner of Vicar lane which in the dark and driving somewhere unusual I missed, my fault. Again as I passed onto the tramway I again passed  a sign with a camera for tram only at the corner of st James row. To make it worse, it is very obvious and I have no idea how I missed these.

 

"Even if they were 'caught' surely the explanation would simply be that they took a wrong turn, didn't realise until they were able to get back onto the next crossroad."

I mean this is exactly what happened.  it was at least In part because I had panicked at being unable to turn off at the juncture with cars approaching from st James row. Once on this section I found myself on tramway with ballast posts either side . The concern for me was because instead of simply making a 3 point turn on the tram track and turning back to get on to whatever road it lead to, I continued in the assumption there would be a crossroad right ahead. Of course there isn't and the next safe turn off is roughly 100 meters down. For me, the distance and area of the city seemed to make it more of a serious offence than simply failure to comply with a traffic sign. 

 

I will get a second opinion from another solicitor. I always prefer to be ahead of these things if I'm unsure. either way, we'll see what comes in the post in the next 14 days and update here. 

 

Thanks again for your reply

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

The cobbled section is between St James Street (Cathedral) then Castle Square then Fitzalan Square/Ponds Forge and the exposed trackwork on the bridge.

 

Vehicles would have a difficult job getting access to the cobbled area from the east.

From the west a driver would need to ignore at least a dozen advisory and regulatory signs on posts and on the road and bollards before entering the cobbled area. 

There are then four possible exits onto roads (with great care). Large vans and lorries would need a police escort.

 

The reaction of the public is usually disbelief and incredulity at the stupidity of someone continuing along the tram tracks

 

However endangering pedestrians should not taken lightly. 

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Having checked on google street view I can see there was a sign at the corner of Vicar lane which in the dark and driving somewhere unusual I missed, my fault. Again as I passed onto the tramway I again passed  a sign with a camera for tram only at the corner of st James row. To make it worse, it is very obvious and I have no idea how I missed these. Clearly,  it would have been a better choice to make a 3 point turn and go back the way I came.  In any case you are right, it was the distance of travel and the pedestrianised nature of that area of city that I felt made it more of an offence, and in fact it may be. We will see what comes in the post. 

 

Thanks again for your reply

 

EDIT: Second opinion from another solicitor advised that it is likely to be a "local council fine" and not points unless police prosecute for road sign offence which apparently is not commonly done, in London. will at least be interesting to see how this is dealt with in Sheffield.

 

 

Edited by Paul xaman

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2 hours ago, Paul xaman said:

EDIT: Second opinion from another solicitor advised that it is likely to be a "local council fine" and not points unless police prosecute for road sign offence which apparently is not commonly done, in London. will at least be interesting to see how this is dealt with in Sheffield.

I do hope you haven't paid for these "opinions"

 

Anyone who knew something about the subject would have told you that moving traffic offences like disobeying a banned turn or a no entry are only enforceable by camera in London at the moment.

 

So, if you weren't actually stopped by the police and given a ticket, you got away with it.

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2 hours ago, Planner1 said:

I do hope you haven't paid for these "opinions"

Thanks for the reply

Free trial on justanswer legal service fortunately.   

2 hours ago, Planner1 said:

disobeying a banned turn or a no entry are only enforceable by camera in London at the moment.

I wasn't aware of that, hopefully its the case.  I wonder if the camera on the tram only sign may be for a "tram gate" in that case. having had  fines for driving through the nations most successful fine camera in  Hillsborough  recently I'm certain bus gate fines are being automatically enforced. 

 

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2016-01-06/bus-lane-fines-net-council-almost-1-million/

 

 

2 hours ago, Planner1 said:

So, if you weren't actually stopped by the police and given a ticket, you got away with it.

we'll see in the next few weeks, I hope you're right. Thanks for the info.

 

Cheers

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4 hours ago, Planner1 said:

I do hope you haven't paid for these "opinions"

 

Anyone who knew something about the subject would have told you that moving traffic offences like disobeying a banned turn or a no entry are only enforceable by camera in London at the moment.

 

So, if you weren't actually stopped by the police and given a ticket, you got away with it.

Not exactly. There are cameras monitoring 'certain' bus gates in the city centre which I believe is for that very purpose.

Edited by WarPig

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1 hour ago, WarPig said:

Not exactly. There are cameras monitoring 'certain' bus gates in the city centre which I believe is for that very purpose.

I think those cameras have been switched from manned to automatic, but I believe he was talking about offences other than bus gates etc. 

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15 hours ago, WarPig said:

Not exactly. There are cameras monitoring 'certain' bus gates in the city centre which I believe is for that very purpose.

A bus lane or bus gate contravention is different to the other ones I mentioned and the council can and does enforce them with cameras.

 

The camera enforced ones are shown on this map. The enforced ones are in red. Church St is not camera enforced.

 

Councils across the country have been asking for the powers to camera enforce banned turns/no entries and box junctions, like they have had in London for many years. The government has always refused until very recently, in the announcements on measures to improve active travel, they said they would be rolling those powers out to the rest of the country.

 

 

16 hours ago, Paul xaman said:

I wasn't aware of that, hopefully its the case.  I wonder if the camera on the tram only sign may be for a "tram gate" in that case. having had  fines for driving through the nations most successful fine camera in  Hillsborough  recently I'm certain bus gate fines are being automatically enforced. 

 

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2016-01-06/bus-lane-fines-net-council-almost-1-million/

I think you'll find that SCC's enforcement cameras are nowhere near the highest earning in the country.

 

For bus lane cameras this report gives the figures and SCC aren't even in the top ten.

 

One box junction camera in London brings in double the amount that all of SCC's cameras net in total. See: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7869701/Moneybox-junction-earns-grasping-council-1-9-MILLION-year-CCTV-catches-twice-number-drivers.html

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I am a believer in enforcement cameras when they are applied with brain and not simply to raise revenue although I have yet to hear if SCC have adopted this simple concept

 

 

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I attended a tribunal over a bus lane penalty a few years ago, where the assessor said that technically she couldn't find in my favour, but since it was clear I hadn't done anything wrong, she recommended to the SCC rep that they waive the penalty. The rep refused. So she then suggested that they reinstate the early payment discount. Again the rep refused. At this point it was pretty clear to me that it is all about the money.

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