Jump to content

South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, BigAl1 said:

like spending the morning on this forum?

No - like phone calls, online shopping and the majority of the rest of the time on the support forum I am on. I only pop in here when I have spare time if a notification pops up re a topic I am following.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

No - like phone calls, online shopping and the majority of the rest of the time on the support forum I am on. I only pop in here when I have spare time if a notification pops up re a topic I am following.

only joking mate

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RollingJ said:

True, they wouldn't tell you, so how do you know your statement in post #926 is correct?

Yes, it is correct. Let me break it down for you:- Each tram train will incur:-

 

Access charges from Network Rail, this will happen every time the tram goes beyond Meadowhall. 

 

Higher staffing costs, the driver and conductor will need to be trained in mainline safety, such as how to evacuate a tram on a mainline railway, route knowledge, track-side walking safety knowledge.

 

Penalties will be charged if the trams run late and delay mainline services. These can be hundreds of pounds for a single delay on the mainline railway. 

 

Are you telling me that carrying 28 passengers (on a good day), with most services only having 4 or 5 people going beyond Meadowhall is a financially viable operation? Bear in mind that not all of these will be paying full fare and some may be travelling on ENCTS cards, where Stagecoach will receive a minimal payment for the journey the passenger has made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, LovePotion said:

Yes, it is correct. Let me break it down for you:- Each tram train will incur:-

 

Access charges from Network Rail, this will happen every time the tram goes beyond Meadowhall. 

 

Higher staffing costs, the driver and conductor will need to be trained in mainline safety, such as how to evacuate a tram on a mainline railway, route knowledge, track-side walking safety knowledge.

 

Penalties will be charged if the trams run late and delay mainline services. These can be hundreds of pounds for a single delay on the mainline railway. 

 

Are you telling me that carrying 28 passengers (on a good day), with most services only having 4 or 5 people going beyond Meadowhall is a financially viable operation? Bear in mind that not all of these will be paying full fare and some may be travelling on ENCTS cards, where Stagecoach will receive a minimal payment for the journey the passenger has made.

Before (or if bother) answering your individual points - you are aware the TramTrain is funded by DfT, although it is operated by Stagecoach as the operator of the tram network?

 

Costs in your first two comments will have been factored in by DfT (as the 'owner'), and staff trained as required as is normal procedure for any operational staff.

 

As mainline trains have absolute priority on shared sections, this means the tram will be held back if allowing it to proceed would break safety guidelines.

 

Finally, as a DfT trial, it is them who will be bearing the costs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

As mainline trains have absolute priority on shared sections, this means the tram will be held back if allowing it to proceed would break safety guidelines.

If one breaks down at say Rotherham Central, it willl be the mainline trains behind it that are held back or diverted to avoid Rotherham.

 

The DFT and SYPTE both take funding from the public purse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, LovePotion said:

If one breaks down at say Rotherham Central, it willl be the mainline trains behind it that are held back or diverted to avoid Rotherham.

 

The DFT and SYPTE both take funding from the public purse.

IF that unfortunate situation occurred, yes, then obviously it would impact the mainline trains, the same as if a mainline train broke down in the same area would affect the tram - in which case it would possibly terminate at Meadowhall and return to Cathedral.

 

Yep, all public/govt bodies take money from the public purse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Budget levels for subsidising services are limited. They don't have enough to subsidise an ever increasing number of services, especially when costs are increasing too.

 

The government would have to give them more money to  subsidise services. It's a national problem isn't it? They're having similar issues in  a lot of places.

But he was given money from government. He chose to waste it on the city connect and giving adults access to child fares...

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Budget levels for subsidising services are limited. They don't have enough to subsidise an ever increasing number of services, especially when costs are increasing too.

 

The government would have to give them more money to  subsidise services. It's a national problem isn't it? They're having similar issues in  a lot of places.

So, a few years ago, a deal was done whereby a massive amount of tendered services were returned to commercial operation with the operators being allowed to cross subsidise services to allow this to happen. This was the Sheffield bus Agreement, the one introduced at gunpoint by the PTE. This resulted in a MASSIVE reduction in tendered services paid for by the PTE and yet more reductions in operators already poor profits. If we look back 20 years the tendered provision was approx 10 times what it is now and operators are running at a loss and its the operators fault?  All councils and PTE's for whatever reason have drastically cut their funding for tendered services and have been very keen to make this look like the operators being greedy. The whole concept of Deregulation hinged on ALL parties playing their part. In general, the bus companies have done so, (with one or two minor exceptions). Remember this when the Council / PTE say they want control of the buses. They have reneged on the small involvement they have had and brought about this crisis.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, LovePotion said:

Yes, it is correct. Let me break it down for you:- Each tram train will incur:-

 

Access charges from Network Rail, this will happen every time the tram goes beyond Meadowhall. 

 

Higher staffing costs, the driver and conductor will need to be trained in mainline safety, such as how to evacuate a tram on a mainline railway, route knowledge, track-side walking safety knowledge.

 

Penalties will be charged if the trams run late and delay mainline services. These can be hundreds of pounds for a single delay on the mainline railway. 

 

Are you telling me that carrying 28 passengers (on a good day), with most services only having 4 or 5 people going beyond Meadowhall is a financially viable operation? Bear in mind that not all of these will be paying full fare and some may be travelling on ENCTS cards, where Stagecoach will receive a minimal payment for the journey the passenger has made.

I would be very interested to know if you could tell us just how much has been paid in fines to Network Rail for the late running of the Tram Train.

 

Fines on the main line railway are imposed for trains that are either over 5 or 10 minutes late (depending on route) and I suspect that as far as Supertram are concerned that far more likely than late running they would divert/cancel a tram train to Meadowhall if it was likely to trigger any fine . Sure if it breaks down on Network Rail track they may well incur a liability but I suspect this is such a rare occurrence as not to be a significant cost

 

I do not know what the contract is with Network rail but worth remembering that compensation is also paid by network rail (and guilty train companies) to operators whose trains are delayed

 

I do not disagree with the thrust of your argument that this is a financial joke with no hope of turning a genuine profit (unless big write offs) but as previously stated this was an experiment to see if trains in the UK could run on network rail routes - a very expensive one albeit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BigAl1 said:

I would be very interested to know if you could tell us just how much has been paid in fines to Network Rail for the late running of the Tram Train.

 

Fines on the main line railway are imposed for trains that are either over 5 or 10 minutes late (depending on route) and I suspect that as far as Supertram are concerned that far more likely than late running they would divert/cancel a tram train to Meadowhall if it was likely to trigger any fine . Sure if it breaks down on Network Rail track they may well incur a liability but I suspect this is such a rare occurrence as not to be a significant cost

 

I do not know what the contract is with Network rail but worth remembering that compensation is also paid by network rail (and guilty train companies) to operators whose trains are delayed

 

I do not disagree with the thrust of your argument that this is a financial joke with no hope of turning a genuine profit (unless big write offs) but as previously stated this was an experiment to see if trains in the UK could run on network rail routes - a very expensive one albeit

How long before an experiment stops being an experiment?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, LovePotion said:

How long before an experiment stops being an experiment?!

Dunno - but if you did a search, I'm sure you'll find the details of the trial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.