South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

[RollingJ 2,017]

1 hour ago, LovePotion said:

That's commercially sensitive information.

True, they wouldn't tell you, so how do you know your statement in post #926 is correct?

[Planner1 431]

16 hours ago, Resident said:

Coppard & SYCMA were not willing to subsidise loss making routes through adequate tender offers. 

Budget levels for subsidising services are limited. They don't have enough to subsidise an ever increasing number of services, especially when costs are increasing too.

 

The government would have to give them more money to  subsidise services. It's a national problem isn't it? They're having similar issues in  a lot of places.

[BigAl1 143]

a snap shot count from one tram is completely meaningless. However I certainly agree that every time I have used the tram it has been lightly loaded on the extension to Rotherham and often picking up virtually no passengers from Tinsley because it is following directly behind a yellow tram with the exception of the opening day when I was on the one that crashed which nearly all the  seats were taken.

 

On a simple investment/cost/revenue  basis I do not think there are many that would argue that the extension to Rotherham was a sound economic decision and that was before the costs went through the roof - the idea was in theory to test the ability of trams to run on network rail tracks and tram track in the UK

 

One can certainly expect the politicians to muddy the waters when they come to justify the experiments success or otherwise

[Andy C 86]

1 hour ago, Planner1 said:

Budget levels for subsidising services are limited. They don't have enough to subsidise an ever increasing number of services, especially when costs are increasing too.

 

The government would have to give them more money to  subsidise services. It's a national problem isn't it? They're having similar issues in  a lot of places.

Indeed. There have been lots of cuts to public transport spending over the last 10 years due to the Conservative government austerity policy but it was only relatively recently that the cuts had to extend to actual bus services.

 

Mayor Coppard has walked into a perfect storm really with the damage done to the industry by Covid and skyrocketing operating costs and this will get much worse when the Covid support funding from the government ends in October.

 

Many bus operators aren't bidding for tendered work due to a combination of driver shortages and the level of subsidy on offer not being enough to cover the increasing costs, yes the answer is probably to increase the level of subsidy on offer to something more realistic but that money has to come from somewhere and it is money the mayor doesn't have. Whilst I do grumble about spending money on pointless shoppers buses and introducing unnecessary concessionary fare schemes to buy votes at the end of the day the amount of money involved in those would hardly touch the sides in terms of funding all the socially/economically necessary tendered bus services that are being withdrawn.

[Martin C 81]

Reported on the South Yorkshire Transport Forum that Stagecoach will take over operation of the 6, 61/62 and 201 on a temporary basis with the contract running until the big change when funding ends in October.

[RollingJ 2,017]

2 minutes ago, Martin C said:

Reported on the South Yorkshire Transport Forum that Stagecoach will take over operation of the 6, 61/62 and 201 on a temporary basis with the contract running until the big change when funding ends in October.

Thanks, @Martin C. I haven't been there yet today, had other things to do.

[BigAl1 143]

3 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Thanks, @Martin C. I haven't been there yet today, had other things to do.

like spending the morning on this forum?

[Andy C 86]

*UPDATE*

 

Stagecoach will be taking on the following Powells routes:

6 City-Millhouses

61/62 Hillsborough-Bradfield

201 Stocksbridge-Chapeltown

https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-gb/newsupdates/service-changes

[RollingJ 2,017]

8 minutes ago, BigAl1 said:

like spending the morning on this forum?

No - like phone calls, online shopping and the majority of the rest of the time on the support forum I am on. I only pop in here when I have spare time if a notification pops up re a topic I am following.

[BigAl1 143]

6 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

No - like phone calls, online shopping and the majority of the rest of the time on the support forum I am on. I only pop in here when I have spare time if a notification pops up re a topic I am following.

only joking mate

[RollingJ 2,017]

17 minutes ago, LovePotion said:

Yes, it is correct. Let me break it down for you:- Each tram train will incur:-

 

Access charges from Network Rail, this will happen every time the tram goes beyond Meadowhall. 

 

Higher staffing costs, the driver and conductor will need to be trained in mainline safety, such as how to evacuate a tram on a mainline railway, route knowledge, track-side walking safety knowledge.

 

Penalties will be charged if the trams run late and delay mainline services. These can be hundreds of pounds for a single delay on the mainline railway. 

 

Are you telling me that carrying 28 passengers (on a good day), with most services only having 4 or 5 people going beyond Meadowhall is a financially viable operation? Bear in mind that not all of these will be paying full fare and some may be travelling on ENCTS cards, where Stagecoach will receive a minimal payment for the journey the passenger has made.

Before (or if bother) answering your individual points - you are aware the TramTrain is funded by DfT, although it is operated by Stagecoach as the operator of the tram network?

 

Costs in your first two comments will have been factored in by DfT (as the 'owner'), and staff trained as required as is normal procedure for any operational staff.

 

As mainline trains have absolute priority on shared sections, this means the tram will be held back if allowing it to proceed would break safety guidelines.

 

Finally, as a DfT trial, it is them who will be bearing the costs.

[RollingJ 2,017]

3 minutes ago, LovePotion said:

If one breaks down at say Rotherham Central, it willl be the mainline trains behind it that are held back or diverted to avoid Rotherham.

 

The DFT and SYPTE both take funding from the public purse.

IF that unfortunate situation occurred, yes, then obviously it would impact the mainline trains, the same as if a mainline train broke down in the same area would affect the tram - in which case it would possibly terminate at Meadowhall and return to Cathedral.

 

Yep, all public/govt bodies take money from the public purse.