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South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

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1 hour ago, BigAl1 said:

As far as fares go they should look at the London model an excellent system that works across bus / tube and overground and the individual companies should not be allowed to have their own fares

...and massively subsidised by taxation.

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1 hour ago, BigAl1 said:

As far as fares go they should look at the London model an excellent system that works across bus / tube and overground and the individual companies should not be allowed to have their own fares

The London model is losing money at an alarming rate and has approximately 3 times the population funding it. Do the sums. 

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13 hours ago, busdriver1 said:

The London model is losing money at an alarming rate and has approximately 3 times the population funding it. Do the sums. 

Any system on S Yorks would be smaller so the losses would be similarly smaller and we do not have a tube and rail network built more than 150 years ago ago with very high maintenance and operational costs but yes it would need financial support but what I am not seeing is anyone coming up with proposals for a bus service in the area that would not require support. Lots of people complaining but little practical being offered.

 

I keep hearing talk of the tram network being extended across S yorkshire nice idea but costs would be massive and look at the farce of the extension to Rotherham over budget years late - doesn't inspire confidence

 

 

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19 hours ago, BigAl1 said:

As far as fares go they should look at the London model an excellent system that works across bus / tube and overground and the individual companies should not be allowed to have their own fares

You mean a system that it currently £4+ billion in debt and begging weekly for government bailout to prevent it collapsing? 

Such an excellent system.....

Such a system wouldn't work in south yorkshire.  There aren't enough paying passengers to support it in London. Most bus users in SY are non-paying travellers (NPT). These NPTs use the service and don't pay. Their fare is by subsidy which is SIGNIFICANTLY less than what a paying traveller would hand over.  

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, BigAl1 said:

Any system on S Yorks would be smaller so the losses would be similarly smaller and we do not have a tube and rail network built more than 150 years ago ago with very high maintenance and operational costs but yes it would need financial support 

We need to  remember that London has a Massive population compared to South Yorkshire yes, but it does not end there. London via commuters has a secondary population using its Transport system that is 6 or seven times the size of South Yorkshire yet with all those customers it is Haemorrhaging money. I believe the Tube system very nearly covers its costs so that can be factored out. We do have a rail system despite the PTE virtually ignoring it and refusing to spend a penny on it. Some sensible work on Rail could see some useful links re-opened. As for the buses, the last 40 years has taught us that political interference causes problems when under qualified people start making unworkable decisions then blaming everybody else when the inevitable happens. If we want a good bus system we need to engage with bus operators ( you know, the ones that do it for a living) instead of constantly fighting with them. We need the various councils to put sensible and well thought out and and well managed traffic systems in place. (spot the flaw in that one?). We need to treat South Yorkshire as its own case and not try to introduce something here that possibly worked in another area of similar size but in reality has nothing else in common. And finally we need to accept that we are never going to get a bus from Sheffield to Doncaster for 10p again.

       Buses cost a lot of money, staff costs a lot of money but they are still massively underpaid for the treatment they have to endure.  We are now pushing operators to invest in zero emissions' buses and dispose of buses that are still being paid for after our government issued advice to not use buses during the pandemic and many are still not doing so. Non of these sums add up, yet we still want more, cheaper, greener buses . 

We have wannabe politicians claiming they will do this that and the other with buses yet most of the things they are claiming they will do are outside of their control but they still keep promising them and many of the public vote for them on the back of that.

Many people blame de-regulation of the buses and to a degree that is the case, but, it is not the bus companies at fault, since the start of the de-regulated market councils and PTE's have gone out of their way to throw obstacles in the way of the bus industry (in their mind THEIR buses) in order to make the system fail.  Funny how councils etc can find money for their own pet schemes but none to support bus services that are lifelines to rural communities. Funny how they can publicly chastise operators for putting fares up whilst significantly reducing the payments they make to them for carrying concessionary passengers.  Funny how they introduce bus station departure charges for bus companies to cover the cost of providing the public with timetables then stop producing those timetables but still retain the departure charges. They gain control of the bus service operators grant and retain it, the bus companies then lose a massive grant that was introduced during the Suez crisis to compensate them for increased fuel costs, does that mean fuel is now cheaper?  The buses were actually our buses and were run on our behalf by the councils etc and they did it very badly and that resulted in the transport act that brought about de-regulation.

These are the people who are going to fix our buses.  My advice to them is - butt out and start listening instead of chasing dreams, you might be able to fix them if you swallow your pride and work with the operators.

Edited by busdriver1
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Posted (edited)

The stupid "pollution tax" thing that Sheffield City council want to impose on the bus operators & taxis for running diesel vehicles in the city centre does not help. This will only raise costs for the customer. As a customer, I want more bus services that go off the main roads and serve the residential areas better, especially the Carterknowle Estate, which has lost the numbers 3 and 4, it is a hell of a walk up from Abbeydale Road. This is what I want to see the PTE and bus operators using resources for, not for "green electric" buses. Sheffield already has a fleet of fairly new and comfortable buses, diesel works fine and has done since the day dot.

Edited by LovePotion
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well it looks like the "very sensible " diversion in town is coming towards its natural and predictable outcome.

 

Quote From Bustimes(.org) "Due to health and safety concerns regarding the use of Division Street during Friday and Saturday evenings, (also Sunday Evenings when there is a Bank Holiday Monday).
Inbound services operated by First & Stagecoach, will be diverted.

From 2100 until end of service every Friday & Saturday (and Sunday evenings on Bank Holiday Mondays) until further notice.
INBOUND - Services 51,52 and 52a will operate as normal to the Children's Hospital then divert down Western Bank to Brook Hill roundabout, Upper Hanover Way, Moore Street, Charter Road, Furnival Street then turn at Furnival Square roundabout.
INBOUND Services 95 & 95a will operate as normal to Brook Hill roundabout then divert via Upper Hanover Street, St Marys Gate, St Marys Roundabout, Eyre Street and Furnival Square before resuming normal route on Furnival Street.
INBOUND Service 120 service will operate as normal to the Royal Hallamshire Hospital then divert up Clarkson Street down Western Bank to Brook Hill roundabout, Upper Hanover Way, St Marys Gate, St Marys Roundabout, Eyre Street & Furnival Square roundabout."

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this should be fun especially at 20.40 wondering which bus stop to go to and I wonder if the dot matrix will reflect the diversion

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Bit of a strange diversion. If they are worried about drunkards jumping out in front of buses, then a) it aint happening at 9-9.30pm. and b) by that logic they better cancel the trams as well.

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25 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Bit of a strange diversion. If they are worried about drunkards jumping out in front of buses, then a) it aint happening at 9-9.30pm. and b) by that logic they better cancel the trams as well.

No they are worried about people catching the bus if people can not find the right stop they can claim there is no demand and reduce the service 

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I cant imagine thats the reason they are moving the 120, 52 and 95 routes tbh, in my mind they seem to be very high frequency routes anyway. Can @Andy C shed any light on why this change is being made?

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2 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

Bit of a strange diversion. If they are worried about drunkards jumping out in front of buses, then a) it aint happening at 9-9.30pm. and b) by that logic they better cancel the trams as well.

The problem (at its worst) is not West Street. It is the Carver Street / Division Street areas, and its not people "jumping out in front of Buses" it is simply people standing in the road and not moving for anyone.

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