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South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

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On 17/09/2021 at 10:27, Poll said:

I am eagerly awaiting the results of the big debate that the Council were having yesterday about all of this. I read that the bus companies seem to like the diversion of the routes because it has speeded up their travel times through the City Centre by 5 minutes.

Of course. Not having to stop and let those pesky passengers board/alight is always quicker.

But...

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IF the Leopold Street/Pinstone Street route was to be reinstated would it be feasible to have a light-controlled right turn from Pinstone Street into Furnival Gate (heading onto Charter Row)?   

When buses used to go via Leopold Street and Pinstone Street most of the delays I encountered (on buses heading south via Moorfoot) were (when having had to turn left down Furnival Gate) they then had to negotiate Furnival Gate roundabout to double back up Furnival Gate towards Charter Row.

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4 hours ago, Martin C said:

IF the Leopold Street/Pinstone Street route was to be reinstated would it be feasible to have a light-controlled right turn from Pinstone Street into Furnival Gate (heading onto Charter Row)?   

When buses used to go via Leopold Street and Pinstone Street most of the delays I encountered (on buses heading south via Moorfoot) were (when having had to turn left down Furnival Gate) they then had to negotiate Furnival Gate roundabout to double back up Furnival Gate towards Charter Row.

That is exactly where the problem is, because the Furnival Sq. roundabout gets snarled up at peak times (fairly reasonable from about 0900-1500). Unfortunately, due to the narrowing (by overbuilding) of the Charter Row entranceway from Pinstone Street, that is not the easiest of turns for 36' long buses. The whole road would need re-configuring (for the fourth/fifth? time) in three years.

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21 hours ago, Martin C said:

When buses used to go via Leopold Street and Pinstone Street most of the delays I encountered (on buses heading south via Moorfoot) were (when having had to turn left down Furnival Gate) they then had to negotiate Furnival Gate roundabout to double back up Furnival Gate towards Charter Row.

 

16 hours ago, RollingJ said:

That is exactly where the problem is, because the Furnival Sq. roundabout gets snarled up at peak times (fairly reasonable from about 0900-1500).

This was debated around 4-5 years ago and at the time there was traffic modelling which showed that because a right-turn would require an additional sequence at the lights, it did still actually work out quicker overall if the buses took the longer route (left, round the roundabout, then back up). Of course, the road has changed both in layout and the general level of congestion since then (it's a quieter road now) so that debate could be done again. The modelling might show a different result now. As Rolling says, it does feel a bit like that junction has been changed 3-4 times in as many years, though...

 

16 hours ago, RollingJ said:

Unfortunately, due to the narrowing (by overbuilding) of the Charter Row entranceway from Pinstone Street, that is not the easiest of turns for 36' long buses. The whole road would need re-configuring (for the fourth/fifth? time) in three years.

Not quite sure what you mean here? The new office building? It's a bit narrower now then when the Grosvenor was there but not to the extent that buses can't navigate it, surely?

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7 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

 

This was debated around 4-5 years ago and at the time there was traffic modelling which showed that because a right-turn would require an additional sequence at the lights, it did still actually work out quicker overall if the buses took the longer route (left, round the roundabout, then back up). Of course, the road has changed both in layout and the general level of congestion since then (it's a quieter road now) so that debate could be done again. The modelling might show a different result now. As Rolling says, it does feel a bit like that junction has been changed 3-4 times in as many years, though...

 

Not quite sure what you mean here? The new office building? It's a bit narrower now then when the Grosvenor was there but not to the extent that buses can't navigate it, surely?

'Traffic modelling' - I wonder if that included actual observation?

 

As the junction stands now, it is impossible, but I accept that if it was opened to right turning traffic, the buses could navigate it - the issue being that it is only (narrow) single lane, but I suppose if the right turn was buses only that shouldn't be a problem.

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1 minute ago, RollingJ said:

'Traffic modelling' - I wonder if that included actual observation?

Probably, to some degree, but standing on the street and staring at the problem is only going to tell you so much. People don't like it because it seems inhuman, but honestly, statistical analysis and computer modelling will give you a much better idea of what's really going on overall.

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Statistical analysis and computer modelling can be wrong though - it depends on the correct input, and having been involved with producing statistics in my job, I know just how they can be manipulated to arrive at a 'desired' outcome. GIGO springs to mind.

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Of course it can be wrong, but so can any other method of data collection and analysis? One person sat on a bus stuck in traffic might swear blind that a right-hand turn at that junction would make everything better, but they have zero evidence to back that up and they're influenced/biased by their situation.

 

I honestly have no idea if the council got things wrong or even lied with regards to that particular bit of modelling they did? I'm not sure what they had to gain from doing so though?

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27 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

Of course it can be wrong, but so can any other method of data collection and analysis? One person sat on a bus stuck in traffic might swear blind that a right-hand turn at that junction would make everything better, but they have zero evidence to back that up and they're influenced/biased by their situation.

 

I honestly have no idea if the council got things wrong or even lied with regards to that particular bit of modelling they did? I'm not sure what they had to gain from doing so though?

Have they rerun the modelling so as to represent the way things are today 

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4 hours ago, AndrewC said:

Of course it can be wrong, but so can any other method of data collection and analysis? One person sat on a bus stuck in traffic might swear blind that a right-hand turn at that junction would make everything better, but they have zero evidence to back that up and they're influenced/biased by their situation.

Have we all forgotten when buses used to make that right turn and the queues of buses went back to Leopold Street because only 2 or 3 could go through at a time?

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Was in Crystal Peaks bus station today about 3.15 . Over 20 minutes without a bus either way . The bus I was waiting  for , due at 3.30  (hourly service) had not turned up at 3.45 so I went for tram . So to the thread title , yes it needs improving . 

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11 hours ago, hackey lad said:

Was in Crystal Peaks bus station today about 3.15 . Over 20 minutes without a bus either way . The bus I was waiting  for , due at 3.30  (hourly service) had not turned up at 3.45 so I went for tram . So to the thread title , yes it needs improving . 

The problem is, yet again the bus industry has been forgotten about by the media. 

During Covid, when they were the ones risking their health and their families health, making sure key workers could still get to/from work they weren't mentioned much (apart from London) in the press. They weren't offered the freebies and discounts etc. 

Now we have driver shortages in professional categories but yet again the media once again ignores the bus industry and focuses on the HGVs. 

ALL bus companies are struggling as drivers are leaving in droves, largely because HGV companies are offering big money sign-on bonuses and inflated wages so PCV drivers are taking the opportunity because they're already used to large vehicles.

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