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South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

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5 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

So the council can't even get its own projects 'approved' - at least - no timescale for implementation - in a reasonable period. You couldn't make it up! (Or could you?)

 

EDIT - but how is a plan to provide replacement facilities at that location going to help those who want Fargate/The Moor/Castlegate &c?

The problem is that with the closure of Pinstone St there are too many individual services from all operators vying for space on Arundel Gate. 

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1 minute ago, Resident said:

The problem is that with the closure of Pinstone St there are too many individual services from all operators vying for space on Arundel Gate. 

I agree - but surely the council should have foreseen this? I am not a city planner, but even I could gave told them that Arundel Gate, especially the east side, is unsuitable as a bus timing point.

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On 12/09/2021 at 12:47, Andy C said:

The council have now started closing Carver Street on Friday and Saturday nights so buses that are diverted that way due to the Leopold Street/Pinstone Street closure cannot go that way either and now have to go round the ring road from the University to Eyre Street, completely missing out a chunk of the City Centre.

Isn't the Carver St closure basically down to the Police wanting it closed because of safety concerns?

4 hours ago, RollingJ said:

I agree - but surely the council should have foreseen this? I am not a city planner, but even I could gave told them that Arundel Gate, especially the east side, is unsuitable as a bus timing point.

Do you think the Council decide where bus timing points are located?

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1 minute ago, Planner1 said:

Isn't the Carver St closure basically down to the Police wanting it closed because of safety concerns?

Even if it is, which is highly likely, it wouldn't have had the disruptive effect to public transport if bus services had not been 'temporarily' diverted that way.

5 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

 

Do you think the Council decide where bus timing points are located?

No - but they should have realised that city centre  stops are most probably some of the more intelligent points - which is why they have been so for as long as cross-city services have existed.

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13 hours ago, RollingJ said:

Even if it is, which is highly likely, it wouldn't have had the disruptive effect to public transport if bus services had not been 'temporarily' diverted that way.

No - but they should have realised that city centre  stops are most probably some of the more intelligent points - which is why they have been so for as long as cross-city services have existed.

There should be a coordinated approach to the routes and where buses stop in the city center which means council,PTE and bus companies working together as a team

 

Anyone remember the report commissioned by the Mayor and published a year ago that concluded that they should take advantage of the immediate hiatus caused by the crisis (pandemic) and move bus and public transport forward to provide services to meet both passenger demand and the wider public good.  The report made some 14 recommendations for action over the next year in the full knowledge of the pandemic and all the mayor has proved is that we need a mayor who is not distracted by being an MP and perhaps a full explanation of what actions are being taken following the report

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1 minute ago, BigAl1 said:

There should be a coordinated approach to the routes and where buses stop in the city center which means council,PTE and bus companies working together as a team

 

Anyone remember the report commissioned by the Mayor and published a year ago that concluded that they should take advantage of the immediate hiatus caused by the crisis (pandemic) and move bus and public transport forward to provide services to meet both passenger demand and the wider public good.  The report made some 14 recommendations for action over the next year in the full knowledge of the pandemic and all the mayor has proved is that we need a mayor who is not distracted by being an MP and perhaps a full explanation of what actions are being taken following the report

I agree that it should be a co-ordinated approach, but as the two statutory bodies (Council/PTE) can't even get their  approach synchronised, do you really think the operators have got a look-in? I certainly don't.

 

I'll have to revisit that 'report' although when I first read it, I didn't think much of it.

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14 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Isn't the Carver St closure basically down to the Police wanting it closed because of safety concerns?

Do you think the Council decide where bus timing points are located?

Pre Covid Carver Street was closed at night in the run up to Christmas and some weekends to facilitate a safe and pleasant nightlife in the area, however back then it only impacted taxis and cars. Buses did West Street - Leopold Street - Pinstone Street. Now with Leopold Street/Pinstone Street closed Carver Street is the "temporary" alternative and now that is also closed it has left buses with nowhere to go, meaning they have to bypass half the City Centre. The Carver Street nightlife closure is nothing new, so council planners making decisions about Pinstone Street/Leopold Street should have been taking this into account.

 

The main timing point in the City Centre for most bus routes is Arundel Gate around the Crucible/Castle Square where the road layout was designed to buses were in a layby out the way, there was a bus lane for other buses to pass then another lane for all other traffic.  This area is officially designated by SYPTE as "Arundel Gate bus Interchange". The council have now built boarding islands over the top of the layby so now if buses wait time there they are blocking traffic and therefore have to wait time a stop or two earlier if they arrive early, much to the frustration of the passengers. This is a change initiated by council planners so yes, in that respect they have decided where bus timing points are located - unless now social distancing is no longer required the bus stops are going to be restored to their previous condition.

 

All these little initiatives in isolation are being done for the right reasons but council planners just don't seem to have the mentality to see the bigger picture and include measures to ensure knock on effects are not negative as part of the same project and timescales, this approach is proving very disruptive and damaging to the quality of the City Centre's public transport offering.

 

There are proposals that have been out to consultation this year to remodel both Arundel Gate and Rockingham Street that will include bus facilities that replace the closed ones on Pinstone Street and Leopold Street. They aren't likely to see reality for a year or so yet, perhaps Pinstone Street and Leopold Street should be reopened to buses until the alternative is ready?

 

Meanwhile other related changes such as reversing the one way direction of Westfield Terrace so traffic is leaving rather than entering by West Street tram stop which is downright dangerous, council planners seem deaf to any criticism on such things, as long as their individual little objective has been achieved.

Edited by Andy C

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1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

I agree that it should be a co-ordinated approach, but as the two statutory bodies (Council/PTE) can't even get their  approach synchronised, do you really think the operators have got a look-in? I certainly don't.

 

I'll have to revisit that 'report' although when I first read it, I didn't think much of it.

that's where a strong guiding mind/leader comes in absolutely essential .

 

I thought there were some good points in the report but the Mayor has proved just how useless he is - easy to commission reports but then to take action is another thing altogether. No doubt he will soon ask for another committee and report to be drawn up

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4 minutes ago, BigAl1 said:

that's where a strong guiding mind/leader comes in absolutely essential .

 

I thought there were some good points in the report but the Mayor has proved just how useless he is - easy to commission reports but then to take action is another thing altogether. No doubt he will soon ask for another committee and report to be drawn up

Agreed - but the 'mayor'/leader is never appointed on their abilities, just on who they know - or other dubious criteria.

 

I'll re-read the report when I have a bit more time to cut through all the flannel.

Edited by RollingJ

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mayor Not appointed

 

voted for and only criteria is what party he is from not if he is qualified or his abilities or his vision. In my mind it is criminal that he sees this as a part time job

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1 minute ago, BigAl1 said:

mayor Not appointed

 

voted for and only criteria is what party he is from not if he is qualified or his abilities or his vision. In my mind it is criminal that he sees this as a part time job

In other words - a 'non-job' for the boys. I agree with your second sentence totally.

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49 minutes ago, Andy C said:

Pre Covid Carver Street was closed at night in the run up to Christmas and some weekends to facilitate a safe and pleasant nightlife in the area, however back then it only impacted taxis and cars. Buses did West Street - Leopold Street - Pinstone Street. Now with Leopold Street/Pinstone Street closed Carver Street is the "temporary" alternative and now that is also closed it has left buses with nowhere to go, meaning they have to bypass half the City Centre. The Carver Street nightlife closure is nothing new, so council planners making decisions about Pinstone Street/Leopold Street should have been taking this into account.

 

The main timing point in the City Centre for most bus routes is Arundel Gate around the Crucible/Castle Square where the road layout was designed to buses were in a layby out the way, there was a bus lane for other buses to pass then another lane for all other traffic.  This area is officially designated by SYPTE as "Arundel Gate bus Interchange". The council have now built boarding islands over the top of the layby so now if buses wait time there they are blocking traffic and therefore have to wait time a stop or two earlier if they arrive early, much to the frustration of the passengers. This is a change initiated by council planners so yes, in that respect they have decided where bus timing points are located - unless now social distancing is no longer required the bus stops are going to be restored to their previous condition.

 

All these little initiatives in isolation are being done for the right reasons but council planners just don't seem to have the mentality to see the bigger picture and include measures to ensure knock on effects are not negative as part of the same project and timescales, this approach is proving very disruptive and damaging to the quality of the City Centre's public transport offering.

 

There are proposals that have been out to consultation this year to remodel both Arundel Gate and Rockingham Street that will include bus facilities that replace the closed ones on Pinstone Street and Leopold Street. They aren't likely to see reality for a year or so yet, perhaps Pinstone Street and Leopold Street should be reopened to buses until the alternative is ready?

 

Meanwhile other related changes such as reversing the one way direction of Westfield Terrace so traffic is leaving rather than entering by West Street tram stop which is downright dangerous, council planners seem deaf to any criticism on such things, as long as their individual little objective has been achieved.

Hmmm... :huh:


Another very interesting post Mr Andy!

 

It's refreshing to read something on here that's written by someone who obviously knows what they're talking about and who takes the trouble to explain in detail to the less-informed of us what's really going on.

 

Thanks for that! :thumbsup:

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