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South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

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Yeah because the 52 Bus route goes through Crookes and most of S10 in general, which is densely populated by students! :D 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Planner1 said:

 

 

There are already plenty of cameras on bus lanes and bus gates. They are only placed at locations where there actually are contraventions that hold buses up. It is also actually unlawful to place cameras and enforce just to generate income.

There are numerous locations where buses are delayed by thé non enforcement of bus Gates and bus stops being blocked by parking (more then often by taxis) .

SCC do nothing until they are pressured by thé bus operators and the next day it returns to the same as before because it is clear that ongoing enforcement will never occur. 

I recall several occasions when buses from Rotherham were diverted away from the wicker for just that reason. ( double parking of taxis blocking not just the bus stops but the whole road)  Sheffield services where possible also got diverted but to a lesser degree .

As for priorities at lights. NO buses in Sheffield have traffic light tags. NONE. Traffic lights in bus lanes are normally triggered by load sensors in the road but utc can and do override these. 

12 hours ago, Mr Allen said:

Yeah because the 52 Bus route goes through Crookes and most of S10 in general, which is densely populated by students! :D 

 

 

They are also in effect 2 routes where they will shed their loads on arrival in town before picking up a fresh load further on giving the impression of being empty. 

Look at them further away from the town centreand you will get a different picture. 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Planner1 said:

They've been spending millions doing just that for decades.

 

Will spending a few bob more now make any real difference?

The problem isn't just gaps in/lack of priority measures.

 

In some areas the bus lanes/gates are only in operation for limited hours - some of the times when there is traffic congestion for example Saturday afternoon, afternoon school run time and early evening they aren't in use and the buses have to sit in the same queues as the cars.

 

Enforcement is poor. There are regularly parked cars blocking bus lanes.

 

There are also examples where traffic lights can give priority to trams or buses but the council has switched that off.

 

It has become a serious issue in Sheffield (lockdown aside of course) of buses becoming slower and less reliable due to traffic congestion, with longer journey times this also means more buses are required to achieve the same frequency therefore costing more to provide the service.

 

Slower journeys are less attractive to passengers and if someone has a choice of sitting in a traffic jam in a car or bus, they will choose car. If a bus bypasses the traffic jam and offers an attractive and consistent journey time they may consider the bus.

 

More people on buses instead of cars = less traffic congestion and better environment.

Edited by Andy C

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20 hours ago, Bigal1 said:

The Star has not got a clue (just like the PTE) and just as you suggest there are far better options for the money to improve public transport.

 

I would agree if they were saying pensioners should get free business class air travel to the far east

The free concessionary travel scheme for pensioners and the disabled funded by the government offers free local bus travel 0930-2300 Mon-Fri and all day weekends and bank holidays. Anything above and beyond this has to be found out of local budgets.

 

Currently on top of the free bus travel during the above hours  SYPTE fund out of the local transport budget

- free tram travel for pensioners and the disabled

- free travel all day for the disabled

- half price local train travel for pensioners and the disabled.

- discounted travel for young people on buses and trams

 

For free train travel more money would have to be found from somewhere to subsidise it. This would mean cutting something else, possibly a subsidised bus service that pensioners rely on. All the journeys made by train in South Yorkshire can be made by bus, albeit not as fast.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Resident said:

What it needs is for the whole transport system to be stripped back and plan all the timetables and frequency of buses from scratch. 

Pre-covid I would regularly see 3 to 6 120s travelling within 2 minutes of each other, mostly empty & double deckers. There are a fair few other high frequency routes, 52 for instance, that are the same. 

I would assume since they couldn't possibly be a financial viability for such then these services must be tendered, wasting public cash.

Personally I don't think 15mins is an unreasonable to wait, assuming you've just missed one. If services are filling to capacity at 15 min intervals then add more buses to the route and reduce it to 10mins at peak times.

Electronically tag all the buses and set all traffic lights on bus routes to prioritise buses traversing those junctions. 
 

Make bus lanes/gates for buses ONLY (except emergency services) & place cameras on them all to generate income from those that think that rules don't apply to them. 

The entire network was redesigned, timetables co-ordinated where multiple operators run together and cheaper multi operator tickets introduced when the Sheffield bus partnership "Buses for Sheffield" was launched in 2012.

 

Frequency is generally based on demand.

 

The vast majority of bus services in Sheffield are operated on a commercial basis with no public subsidy. Then gaps in the commercial network are filled by tendered services with a subsidy, these provide buses to areas or at times where running a service isn't financially viable but the provision is judged as socially or economically necessary. The budget for such services has unfortunately been cut over recent years as a result of the Conservative government's austerity policy.

 

In the case of bus 52/52a, each run every 10 minutes with the times co-ordinated to provide a bus every 5 minutes. Likewise with bus 120. However with Sheffield's traffic congestion buses can run late, these routes also suffer having to run something of an obstacle course around the City Centre now that Leopold Street/Pinstone Street is closed plus of course there can be spikes in demand at certain times associated with places like schools and hospitals, it is easy for buses to get delayed and bunch together as a result. Sometimes buses on the 52 o 120 when late will be terminated short of the scheduled destination and jump onto its next trip on time to fix bunching, the 52a is harder to do that with due to many trips extending out to Wisewood or Loxley where service is less frequent.

 

All buses are tracked with services operated by First, Stagecoach and TM Travel  shown on a map for passengers too. First and Stagecoach show this on their apps, all three can be seen together on the independent bustimes.org website. The effectiveness of bus priority measures in Sheffield does need improving. The City planners do need to take on board the needs of bus provision much more in their thinking in areas such as the City Centre regeneration and giving planning permission to new housing estates.

Edited by Andy C

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2 hours ago, Andy C said:

The entire network was redesigned, timetables co-ordinated where multiple operators run together and cheaper multi operator tickets introduced when the Sheffield bus partnership "Buses for Sheffield" was launched in 2012.

 

Frequency is generally based on demand.

 

The vast majority of bus services in Sheffield are operated on a commercial basis with no public subsidy. Then gaps in the commercial network are filled by tendered services with a subsidy, these provide buses to areas or at times where running a service isn't financially viable but the provision is judged as socially or economically necessary. The budget for such services has unfortunately been cut over recent years as a result of the Conservative government's austerity policy.

 

In the case of bus 52/52a, each run every 10 minutes with the times co-ordinated to provide a bus every 5 minutes. Likewise with bus 120. However with Sheffield's traffic congestion buses can run late, these routes also suffer having to run something of an obstacle course around the City Centre now that Leopold Street/Pinstone Street is closed plus of course there can be spikes in demand at certain times associated with places like schools and hospitals, it is easy for buses to get delayed and bunch together as a result. Sometimes buses on the 52 o 120 when late will be terminated short of the scheduled destination and jump onto its next trip on time to fix bunching, the 52a is harder to do that with due to many trips extending out to Wisewood or Loxley where service is less frequent.

 

All buses are tracked with services operated by First, Stagecoach and TM Travel  shown on a map for passengers too. First and Stagecoach show this on their apps, all three can be seen together on the independent bustimes.org website. The effectiveness of bus priority measures in Sheffield does need improving. The City planners do need to take on board the needs of bus provision much more in their thinking in areas such as the City Centre regeneration and giving planning permission to new housing estates.

BOLD

This was told to me by someone who works for an operator.

 

Operator A & Operator B run the same route.

Op A submitted registration documentation for the route, with the normal lead time (6-10 week I think they said), setting times and routes as agreed based on loading estimates.
Op B waited till the last moment and submitted an "emergency registration" which can be done in 24hrs. Op B submitted times to run the service a few minutes ahead of Op A during peak times, thus 'robbing' passengers from Op A. 

This has happened in Sheffield on multiple routes & PTE/bus partnership have allowed it to happen. 

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8 hours ago, Andy C said:

In some areas the bus lanes/gates are only in operation for limited hours - some of the times when there is traffic congestion for example Saturday afternoon, afternoon school run time and early evening they aren't in use and the buses have to sit in the same queues as the cars.

A lot of that is down to political acceptability.

 

The officers of SCC know exactly what is needed, but politicians won't approve it.

8 hours ago, Andy C said:

Slower journeys are less attractive to passengers and if someone has a choice of sitting in a traffic jam in a car or bus, they will choose car. If a bus bypasses the traffic jam and offers an attractive and consistent journey time they may consider the bus.

 

More people on buses instead of cars = less traffic congestion and better environment.

It all sounds fine in theory, but I'm sure you know as well as I do that very little mode shift goes from car to bus.

 

The only way most car drivers will get the bus is if they are forced to.

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9 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

A lot of that is down to political acceptability.

 

The officers of SCC know exactly what is needed, but politicians won't approve it.

It all sounds fine in theory, but I'm sure you know as well as I do that very little mode shift goes from car to bus.

 

The only way most car drivers will get the bus is if they are forced to.

Actually, my Dad's a car driver, and if he ever has to visit Town, he'll park his car near a Tram stop and get the Tram (he's 72 so he has a free Bus and Tram pass :D

 

 

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9 hours ago, Andy C said:

Enforcement is poor. There are regularly parked cars blocking bus lanes.

 

The problem is that many people will take the chance and park in places they shouldn't if they think they can get away with it.

 

The Council can and does enforce, but they can't be everywhere and enforce everything.

 

Part of the problem is that the government does not want Councils to use camera enforcement for parking contraventions, so tickets have to be issued by an enforcement officer in person and many parking contraventions require an observation period before a ticket is issued, so drivers often see the enforcement officer and just drive off.

 

All of this is a problem in any town or city, not just Sheffield.

6 minutes ago, Mr Allen said:

Actually, my Dad's a car driver, and if he ever has to visit Town, he'll park his car near a Tram stop and get the Tram (he's 72 so he has a free Bus and Tram pass :D

 

 

Trams are proven to attract mode shift from the car.

 

Buses tend to attract mode shift from people who walk or cycle. Not car drivers.

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22 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

The problem is that many people will take the chance and park in places they shouldn't if they think they can get away with it.

 

The Council can and does enforce, but they can't be everywhere and enforce everything.

That may be the view in the ivory tower, however in the real world there are areas where this happens daily and in some cases ALL day that just get ignored because they are politically sensitive areas. I even had a conversation with one about this and he said quite clearly "no way will I go to xxxxx, I would get roasted and the fines would not get paid anyway".

27 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

 

Trams are proven to attract mode shift from the car.

 

Ooo statistics, We could also say that trams have ONLY been successful in taking people out of cars and not off bikes or buses even though the fact is that the routing of the tram was designed to do just that and did so.

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30 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

Buses tend to attract mode shift from people who walk or cycle. Not car drivers.

There are plenty areas of the country with forward looking local authorities and Bus companies prepared to invest where new services have been introduced that have taken loads of people out of cars and importantly kept them as customers. However they have the advantage of having local authorities that listen. Lucky them. 

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7 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

There are plenty areas of the country with forward looking local authorities and Bus companies prepared to invest where new services have been introduced that have taken loads of people out of cars and importantly kept them as customers. However they have the advantage of having local authorities that listen. Lucky them. 

Agreed.

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