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South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

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2 hours ago, Resident said:

You know full well that I would not be able to confirm or deny the existence of evidence nor that of any ongoing investigation with definity. 

 

Back in your box. The adults are talking. 

As you are unable or unwilling to produce any evidence that  "... certain councillors & MPs more than likely grabbed a back-pocket share of the funding too.",  it would be the right thing to do to ignore such comments and any weight  to the  argument you are trying to develop. 

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Posted (edited)
On 15/04/2021 at 14:10, Planner1 said:

So what would you like? The council to not put those blocks in place and leave the centre vulnerable to terrorist attack? I’m afraid “ornate gates” aren’t going to work if, as they have done elsewhere, attackers decide to try to hit people with an HGV. To stop those you need something very solid.

 

This kind of thing is just a factor of modern life in city centres everywhere. Doesn’t look great but not something I would even think about when deciding whether or not to come into town.

 

Yes, parts of the city centre have a lot of building work going on. You heard the one about omelettes and eggs? When a lot of change is happening, there’s usually a bit of disturbance and inconvenience in the process. 

My bold, what a loss of your argument there. exactly where elsewhere has this happened (manchester in the 90's?) in the UK where a HGV has been used in a city centre to attack people.? 

You are more likely to be killed by lightening than killed by a HGV being used as a terrorist. If that is the justification for the bollards then its weak. Nothing stopping a driver hitting the city centre near the market or just coming off at top of the moor

 

would it stop you coming into town if the blocks werent there? Do you not feel secure outside the cathedral but you are ok on fargate?

 

Edited by sheffbag

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4 hours ago, sheffbag said:

My bold, what a loss of your argument there. exactly where elsewhere has this happened (manchester in the 90's?) in the UK where a HGV has been used in a city centre to attack people.? 

You are more likely to be killed by lightening than killed by a HGV being used as a terrorist. If that is the justification for the bollards then its weak. Nothing stopping a driver hitting the city centre near the market or just coming off at top of the moor

 

would it stop you coming into town if the blocks werent there? Do you not feel secure outside the cathedral but you are ok on fargate?

 

You don’t read the news much, do you? There have been several terrorist attacks in recent years in the UK where vehicles have been used as a weapon. Four people killed in the one on Westminster Bridge: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-idUSKBN1KZ0HY

 

Concrete blocks have been used by authorities all over this country and abroad to mitigate such threats.

 

The blocks don’t bother me at all and would not in any way deter me from coming to town, but another poster mentioned them as part of their reasoning for not coming into town.

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19 hours ago, Planner1 said:

You don’t read the news much, do you? There have been several terrorist attacks in recent years in the UK where vehicles have been used as a weapon. Four people killed in the one on Westminster Bridge: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-idUSKBN1KZ0HY

 

Concrete blocks have been used by authorities all over this country and abroad to mitigate such threats.

 

The blocks don’t bother me at all and would not in any way deter me from coming to town, but another poster mentioned them as part of their reasoning for not coming into town.

You dont read your own posts or peoples replies much do you? (sorry, but if you want to be sarcastic then at least get it right)

 

You stated HGV specifically, I challenged you on that so you provide evidence of a car being used in London on a bridge in an actual attack plus a foiled plot that could potentially have used  a truck . You were using this an a reasoning for the blocks to be there in the first place.

 

There have been high profile cases involving HGV's i grant you (Nice, Berlin, Linburg) but that is 3 in the last 8 years across the whole of Europe. If we were to use your example of using a car as an actual case to substantiate your point then we better stop trucks, buses and cars on the edge of park square roundabout to prevent them going up the ring road to prevent the miniscule chance that they may plough into the 02 Academy during a concert or the Lyceum or a taxi filled with explosives jumps the lanes and crashes into the cathedral. 

 

Ridiculous examples maybe just about as likely as a rogue HGV running up Fargate so where do you stop.

 

If these people wish to take a vehicle to injure others then they will find a way to do it somewhere. I could ride a motorbike straight through the middle of sheffield city centre running people over or shooting them. Those blocks wouldnt stop me

 

Anyway back to buses...................

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Just to add to previous comments, Arundel Gate wouldn't be so bad for a main bus hub, if it actually had proper bus stops with shelters/real time info/seating and lighting like the stops on Pinstone Street & Leopold Street had. The barricades into the carriageway are a waste of time and just cause congestion and inconvenience for everyone. I am yet to see anyone wait for a bus out in the barricaded sections like they were "supposedly" designed to do. Should be removed and put back to how they were prior to covid.

 

Another point in relation to the Connecting Sheffield proposal which I couldn't quite grasp is why a bus gate was going to be introduced northbound where the carriageway is 3 lanes wide already (bus stop laybys, bus lane and then another general lane) rather than the other direction where there isn't ample bus stop laybys and only 1 lane for all traffic to mix!

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Michael_N said:

Just to add to previous comments, Arundel Gate wouldn't be so bad for a main bus hub, if it actually had proper bus stops with shelters/real time info/seating and lighting like the stops on Pinstone Street & Leopold Street had. The barricades into the carriageway are a waste of time and just cause congestion and inconvenience for everyone. I am yet to see anyone wait for a bus out in the barricaded sections like they were "supposedly" designed to do. Should be removed and put back to how they were prior to covid.

 

Another point in relation to the Connecting Sheffield proposal which I couldn't quite grasp is why a bus gate was going to be introduced northbound where the carriageway is 3 lanes wide already (bus stop laybys, bus lane and then another general lane) rather than the other direction where there isn't ample bus stop laybys and only 1 lane for all traffic to mix!

Agree that Arundel Gate is a reasonable location for a bus hub, providing that 'standing time' was reasonably short - especially south-bound as there are no lay-bys that side - but for it to function properly they (council/SYPTE) have got to remove those ridiculous barricades, the amount of congestion they caused even during the quiet time had to be seen to be believed, and as restrictions are lifted and life attempts to get back to something approaching 'normal' I can see permanent gridlock.

 

Second paragraph - two words - council 'planning'!

Edited by RollingJ

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5 hours ago, Michael_N said:

Just to add to previous comments, Arundel Gate wouldn't be so bad for a main bus hub, if it actually had proper bus stops with shelters/real time info/seating and lighting like the stops on Pinstone Street & Leopold Street had. The barricades into the carriageway are a waste of time and just cause congestion and inconvenience for everyone. I am yet to see anyone wait for a bus out in the barricaded sections like they were "supposedly" designed to do. Should be removed and put back to how they were prior to covid.

 

Another point in relation to the Connecting Sheffield proposal which I couldn't quite grasp is why a bus gate was going to be introduced northbound where the carriageway is 3 lanes wide already (bus stop laybys, bus lane and then another general lane) rather than the other direction where there isn't ample bus stop laybys and only 1 lane for all traffic to mix!

I would disagree. Using AG and closing the Interchange would mean even more buses when the ones currently using the interchange are routed up there.  There isn't enough room for the current vehicle numbers without adding more. 
Recently it seems to have become home to a few ne'er-do-well's which, despite being stood in the open, have evaded the attention of authorities. Bus drivers have been assaulted and even stabbed on AG in recent times too so there's a big safety issue, particularly at night.

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No different to trains or trams etc, buses can’t leave these stops early and they are there to regulate services. Stops located between those listed on the main timetable are only estimated arrival times.

 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, olivapopea said:

No different to trains or trams etc, buses can’t leave these stops early and they are there to regulate services. Stops located between those listed on the main timetable are only estimated arrival times.

 

Those of us in this thread (well, all but the OP) are well aware of that - to be honest, I don't know what you are trying to say here?

Edited by RollingJ

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39 minutes ago, olivapopea said:

No different to trains or trams etc, buses can’t leave these stops early and they are there to regulate services. Stops located between those listed on the main timetable are only estimated arrival times.

 

A good driver will always self-regulate inbetween where possible. However I know drivers that will arrive at a non-timing stop upto a minute early however know from experience that the next junction or whatever takes time to negotiate that's not built into the journey so will carry on and use that minute for the junction in order to keep, as best they can, punctual. 

My personal view is that you should be at the stop no less than 4-5 mins before it's published departure time and use those spare minutes to get your cash/card/pass/pre-paid ticket ready. It really grates on me when there are people queued in front of you that have been there more than a few minutes and leave it until they're boarding to start rummaging in their pockets/bags or messing with their mobile to load the ticket meaning it takes longer to board. 

If 3 or 4 people do this then the bus ends up leaving minutes late, assuming it's not a few minutes early.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Resident said:

A good driver will always self-regulate inbetween where possible. However I know drivers that will arrive at a non-timing stop upto a minute early however know from experience that the next junction or whatever takes time to negotiate that's not built into the journey so will carry on and use that minute for the junction in order to keep, as best they can, punctual. 

My personal view is that you should be at the stop no less than 4-5 mins before it's published departure time and use those spare minutes to get your cash/card/pass/pre-paid ticket ready. It really grates on me when there are people queued in front of you that have been there more than a few minutes and leave it until they're boarding to start rummaging in their pockets/bags or messing with their mobile to load the ticket meaning it takes longer to board. 

If 3 or 4 people do this then the bus ends up leaving minutes late, assuming it's not a few minutes early.

Couldn't agree more - and is especially galling/aggravating when you are trying to catch a connection and the bus is already late due to traffic - I have now worked out that if I have connections to make, that I catch the bus at least one before I should need to account for these unthinking individuals. 

Edited by RollingJ

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Posted (edited)

I see a campaign reported quite prominently in the Star is calling for the return of a free City Centre bus, backed by various potential councillors wishing to be elected.

 

It does disappoint me to see politicians and journalists missing the point so badly - or perhaps their interest is they fancy a free ride to take them from where they park their car?

 

A free bus doesn't help with roads that are closed (a free bus can't drive down closed roads either!), it doesn't have much benefit from existing bus users that generally have a pass or day ticket for the buses and trams that already provide links around town; and it doesn't really contribute that much to making town more attractive or pleasant.

 

Who is going to pay for the proposed free bus? City Centre businesses that are struggling because of Covid? SYPTE who would have to make cuts elsewhere in the transport budget to find the money?

 

Lets focus on making bus (and tram) an attractive choice for travel to the City Centre for work, shopping, leisure and any other reason you may go there!

 

  1. - Routes that are convenient and easy to understand (including both the outward and return bus serving the same areas!)
  2. - Stops in prominent locations where people want to be that are spacious, well lit, sheltered, clean and with good information (live departure boards, timetables and a map).
  3. - Stops where you aren't worried about beggars, druggies or other undesirables hassling or potentially mugging you while you wait.
  4. - Services that are punctual and reliable, not being prone to traffic congestion or being routed down narrow roads with no reasonable diversionary route when blocked are important for this!
  5. - Reasonably quick journey times
  6. - Regular departures, ideally a clockface timetable where they leave at the same easy to remember times each hour
  7. - Information about times and fares that is easily accessible and understandable
  8. - Choice of reasonable value tickets including ones that work on all buses/trams as well as cheaper operator specific deals, ideally with the choice being simple and easy to understand with convenient payments options including cash, card or online.
  9. - Vehicles that are clean and comfortable with enough seats. 

Hopefully that is all the basics off the top of my head. Points 1 to 5 require the local authorities to provide the infrastructure to be able to happen and I believe that is where the focus should be, along with a look at the tendered network (those routes subsidised by SYPTE where there isn't enough demand to be commercially viable but the service is still economically and socially important to the communities served - these have suffered cuts in recent years due to public sector austerity policies).

Edited by Andy C

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