South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

[Andy C 85]

1 hour ago, HeHasRisen said:

If people simply werent getting buses because they thought it was £2.80 per journey, when a £4 day saver or £15 weekly ticket exists, then its just a case of educating people about these, the "no single journey more than £2" is a meaningless soundbyte in reality.  Exactly the same as when Burnham announced a similar thing in Manchester a few weeks back.

I think there is a general aspiration to introduce smart ticketing with daily/weekly capping (ie you tap your contactless bank card or smart card each time you travel and it charges you the single fare but stops charging when you hit the price of an all day pass or weekly pass, making sure you always get the best deal) and the practicalities on a system where you don't tap off as well as tap on require it to be a flat fare, so these schemes help things down that road.

 

However the biggest thing for South Yorkshire, which is something our new Mayor has said so clearly understands, is making the ticketing system much simpler and easy to understand. We have the Travelmaster range that works on all buses, trams and trains in the county which is nice, simple and good value, however operator specific tickets also exist alongside them - and are necessary to cover cross boundary journeys such as into Derbyshire.

 

Yes, ticketing needs much better promotion, communication and making simpler. However actually the prices in Sheffield are quite reasonable and I don't believe that should be the top priority for improving public transport in the city - punctuality and reliability need to be the biggest thing and this will require improvements to the bus priority measures (just for example a lot of buses are delayed in traffic during the afternoon school run around 3pm and the bus lanes don't come into use until 4pm) then the next biggest thing, which will require an increased public funding, is to improve the tendered part of the network to improve rural/community service frequencies and hours of operation and to fix some missing links.

 

We need to make sure that the buses are there to use in the first place and are running reliably before we start worrying about tinkering with ticketing.

[sheffbag 226]

1 hour ago, Andy C said:

I think there is a general aspiration to introduce smart ticketing with daily/weekly capping (ie you tap your contactless bank card or smart card each time you travel and it charges you the single fare but stops charging when you hit the price of an all day pass or weekly pass, making sure you always get the best deal) and the practicalities on a system where you don't tap off as well as tap on require it to be a flat fare, so these schemes help things down that road.

 

However the biggest thing for South Yorkshire, which is something our new Mayor has said so clearly understands, is making the ticketing system much simpler and easy to understand. We have the Travelmaster range that works on all buses, trams and trains in the county which is nice, simple and good value, however operator specific tickets also exist alongside them - and are necessary to cover cross boundary journeys such as into Derbyshire.

 

Yes, ticketing needs much better promotion, communication and making simpler. However actually the prices in Sheffield are quite reasonable and I don't believe that should be the top priority for improving public transport in the city - punctuality and reliability need to be the biggest thing and this will require improvements to the bus priority measures (just for example a lot of buses are delayed in traffic during the afternoon school run around 3pm and the bus lanes don't come into use until 4pm) then the next biggest thing, which will require an increased public funding, is to improve the tendered part of the network to improve rural/community service frequencies and hours of operation and to fix some missing links.

 

We need to make sure that the buses are there to use in the first place and are running reliably before we start worrying about tinkering with ticketing.

There has been a general aspiration for 15years to have daily/weekly capping. Going back to the original Yorcard trials which used a £3 daily cap

So we already have Travelmaster for within South Yorkshire which is admittedly a good product and a fair value but the problem you have is that the money is then divvied up between the operators so of course the larger ones will introduce their products to get 100% of the income. So how will the new mayor stop that?

improving public transport in the city - punctuality and reliability need to be the biggest thing - Sorry, i thought the mayor was after funding for the whole of South Yorkshire, not just Sheffield. You use the school run as an example, that is generally 10-15 minutes out of a day of increased localised traffic. Which bus lane areas are hit by school run traffic? 

 

[Andy C 85]

11 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

There has been a general aspiration for 15years to have daily/weekly capping. Going back to the original Yorcard trials which used a £3 daily cap

So we already have Travelmaster for within South Yorkshire which is admittedly a good product and a fair value but the problem you have is that the money is then divvied up between the operators so of course the larger ones will introduce their products to get 100% of the income. So how will the new mayor stop that?

improving public transport in the city - punctuality and reliability need to be the biggest thing - Sorry, i thought the mayor was after funding for the whole of South Yorkshire, not just Sheffield. You use the school run as an example, that is generally 10-15 minutes out of a day of increased localised traffic. Which bus lane areas are hit by school run traffic? 

 

Yes, the mayor is in charge of South Yorkshire however this is the Sheffield Forum...

 

A lot of people travel between South Yorkshire and Derbyshire (to places like Dronfield and Chesterfield for example), especially those that live in South Sheffield by the border and they aren't catered for by South Yorkshire ticketing schemes so there have to be other tickets to cater for them.

 

Traffic gets bad during the afternoon school run across much of the city around 2.30 to 3.30pm. My own experience is of buses taking 20 minutes longer than scheduled around this time and just have to sit in the traffic jams as the bus lanes don't come into operation until 4pm. By the time the bus lanes become active the buses are already late which impacts the evening peak commute.

 

To use bus route 25 towards Bradway as an example there are secondary schools on the route coming out of Woodhouse, coming out the City Centre (Granville Road/Queens Road) and at Meadowhead.

[northernboy 13]

3 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

If people simply werent getting buses because they thought it was £2.80 per journey, when a £4 day saver or £15 weekly ticket exists, then its just a case of educating people about these, the "no single journey more than £2" is a meaningless soundbyte in reality.  Exactly the same as when Burnham announced a similar thing in Manchester a few weeks back.

Where’s the £4 day saver? First Bus only is £4.50, CityBus is £4.90. Stagecoach don’t seem to list one on their website but they say I can buy a Tram Only DayRider as a “paper ticket on the bus” which sounds like nonsense. First Bus offer a single journey for £2 but only via their app if you buy them in batches of ten, or you can buy 2 trips for £4.40, or 3 days of travel for £12, or 5 days for £15, or 7 days for £16, and so on and so on, anything that can be done to simplify this has got to be good!

[HeHasRisen 3,371]

1 minute ago, northernboy said:

Where’s the £4 day saver? First Bus only is £4.50, CityBus is £4.90. Stagecoach don’t seem to list one on their website but they say I can buy a Tram Only DayRider as a “paper ticket on the bus” which sounds like nonsense. First Bus offer a single journey for £2 but only via their app if you buy them in batches of ten, or you can buy 2 trips for £4.40, or 3 days of travel for £12, or 5 days for £15, or 7 days for £16, and so on and so on, anything that can be done to simplify this has got to be good!

They were example amounts plucked out of the air to demonstrate a point. 

 

The fact remains, reducing the biggest single fare to £2 per journey wont actually benefit a huge number of people given the range of multi-day tickets out there. Its all political bluster to try and make something look better than it actually is.

[sheffbag 226]

1 hour ago, Andy C said:

Yes, the mayor is in charge of South Yorkshire however this is the Sheffield Forum...

 

A lot of people travel between South Yorkshire and Derbyshire (to places like Dronfield and Chesterfield for example), especially those that live in South Sheffield by the border and they aren't catered for by South Yorkshire ticketing schemes so there have to be other tickets to cater for them.

 

Traffic gets bad during the afternoon school run across much of the city around 2.30 to 3.30pm. My own experience is of buses taking 20 minutes longer than scheduled around this time and just have to sit in the traffic jams as the bus lanes don't come into operation until 4pm. By the time the bus lanes become active the buses are already late which impacts the evening peak commute.

 

To use bus route 25 towards Bradway as an example there are secondary schools on the route coming out of Woodhouse, coming out the City Centre (Granville Road/Queens Road) and at Meadowhead.

If you are travelling mainly between SY and Derbyshire then you woudl have to buy the specific operator ticket i.e the Stagecoach silver. why should Travelmaster fund transport in Derbyshire/WY. it was tried with the metromaster which was a very low seller for travel between west and south yorkshire cross boundary services but politically the revenue apportionment wasnt worth it

 

[Guest busdriver1]

3 hours ago, northernboy said:

Where’s the £4 day saver? First Bus only is £4.50, CityBus is £4.90. Stagecoach don’t seem to list one on their website but they say I can buy a Tram Only DayRider as a “paper ticket on the bus” which sounds like nonsense. First Bus offer a single journey for £2 but only via their app if you buy them in batches of ten, or you can buy 2 trips for £4.40, or 3 days of travel for £12, or 5 days for £15, or 7 days for £16, and so on and so on, anything that can be done to simplify this has got to be good!

By far the biggest culprit for complex ticketing is Stagecoach, they have a myriad of  day, week and monthly tickets that were all introduced to answer specific concerns of passengers. The end result however is a range so complex most of the drivers cant even figure them out. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont.

 

First have also introduced carnet tickets etc to answer demands for people hybrid working and finding a weekly ticket too expensive.

 

Who do you want to penalise? 

 

Can I politely point out that you are obviously aware of these tickets and I dare say are capable of choosing a relevant one. Bus operators are trying their best to get people back on buses after 2 years of the government telling them to keep off them. They are trying to introduce tickets aimed at peoples new travel patterns. This can not be done by a "simple" one size fits all ticketing system. There is a degree of responsibility on the public to educate themselves but, hey, this is Sheffield after all . . . . . . . . . . .

[BigAl1 142]

As far as fares go they should look at the London model an excellent system that works across bus / tube and overground and the individual companies should not be allowed to have their own fares

[HeHasRisen 3,371]

1 hour ago, BigAl1 said:

As far as fares go they should look at the London model an excellent system that works across bus / tube and overground and the individual companies should not be allowed to have their own fares

...and massively subsidised by taxation.

[Guest busdriver1]

1 hour ago, BigAl1 said:

As far as fares go they should look at the London model an excellent system that works across bus / tube and overground and the individual companies should not be allowed to have their own fares

The London model is losing money at an alarming rate and has approximately 3 times the population funding it. Do the sums. 

[BigAl1 142]

13 hours ago, busdriver1 said:

The London model is losing money at an alarming rate and has approximately 3 times the population funding it. Do the sums. 

Any system on S Yorks would be smaller so the losses would be similarly smaller and we do not have a tube and rail network built more than 150 years ago ago with very high maintenance and operational costs but yes it would need financial support but what I am not seeing is anyone coming up with proposals for a bus service in the area that would not require support. Lots of people complaining but little practical being offered.

 

I keep hearing talk of the tram network being extended across S yorkshire nice idea but costs would be massive and look at the farce of the extension to Rotherham over budget years late - doesn't inspire confidence

 

 

[Resident 1,185]

19 hours ago, BigAl1 said:

As far as fares go they should look at the London model an excellent system that works across bus / tube and overground and the individual companies should not be allowed to have their own fares

You mean a system that it currently £4+ billion in debt and begging weekly for government bailout to prevent it collapsing? 

Such an excellent system.....

Such a system wouldn't work in south yorkshire.  There aren't enough paying passengers to support it in London. Most bus users in SY are non-paying travellers (NPT). These NPTs use the service and don't pay. Their fare is by subsidy which is SIGNIFICANTLY less than what a paying traveller would hand over.