South Yorkshire Bus Service Needs Improvement

[RollingJ 1,993]

50 minutes ago, Resident said:

The 135 used to run via Shalesmoor and bypass Upperthorpe. The operator was all but bullied into rerouting it around Upperthorpe to replace the 31 by the PTE.

From what I understand TM used 25ish seat small Optares for the route, a vehicle First don't have

 

Thanks for that info . Makes sense to use more manoeuvrable vehicles on a route like that. The question is, why did an operator with unsuitable vehicles get the contract?  Sounds like a typical SYPTE decision.

[Resident 1,185]

3 hours ago, RollingJ said:

Thanks for that info . Makes sense to use more manoeuvrable vehicles on a route like that. The question is, why did an operator with unsuitable vehicles get the contract?  Sounds like a typical SYPTE decision.

Typical PTE decision making. 

 

I can only assume because I'm not privy to all the facts but I would hazard a guess that it was the nearest route that could be rerouted. 

 

I've been on it several times and the two bits I find most ridiculous are Daniel Hill & Whitehouse Rd. 

[Andy C 85]

On 29/04/2021 at 14:01, butlers said:

Was packed with oldies who disproportionately don't have cars.

Ran from the B and C , Arundel Gate ,Surrey St  then down to the new Moor Markets.

Returned via Paternoster Row ,handy for train station, and Pond St.

 

Off hand I can't think of a service that duplicates many of those points without having to change bus 

Oldies have free bus passes so can use the normal buses and trams.

 

From the rail/bus station to Arundel Gate - bus 95/95a runs regular

From the rail/bus station to High Street and West Street - tram or 120 bus

From the bus station to Angel Street/Castlegate - 57, X17, X78

From the bus/rail station to Moorfoot - 56, 218, 272

From Arundel Gate to Moorfoot - 20,24,25,43,44,75,76,81,82.83,83a,88

To/from Pinstone Street - road closed.

On 29/04/2021 at 13:45, butlers said:

True but was very frequent service .

It also ran a route that a normal bus could not run

The only bit of route the Freebee did that was unique was the road up from Arundel Gate to the town hall past the Crucible theatre and Winter Gardens.  As Pinstone Street is now closed this is no longer possible.

[Andy C 85]

On 29/04/2021 at 15:32, Mr Allen said:

I live in S3, near the Infirmary Road Tesco, and I used to frequently use the old 31 service between upper Walkley, Hillsborough and Pond St Bus Station, but a couple of years back they took that service off, and replaced it with the 135, which is considerably less reliable IMO even though it goes on more or less the same route.

 

Bus 31 was always a tendered service that required taxpayer subsidy from SYPTE to operate - it didn't sell enough tickets to be financially viable but was viewed as socially/economically important to the communities it served.

 

It became a victim of budget cuts under government public sector austerity policy when the funding available was reduced and only enough to pay for the evening and weekend service, however at that time Sheffield Community Transport chose to operate the weekday daytime service commercially which they were able to do on very thin margins as a result of resources from other contracts they had for tendered services. Unfortunately when they lost those other contracts it was no longer viable to run the 31 so they pulled it.

 

SYPTE had no budget to tender a replacement 31 so the existing service 135 was diverted off the main road to cover part of the route around Upperthorpe/Lower Walkley and the 52a was extended to Wisewood/Loxley to cover that part.

 

Now back to the point about the campaign by prospective councillors and the Star/Telegraph to fund a free bus in town - wouldn't giving communities that no longer have a local bus such as those that used to be on the 31 be a higher priority for funding?

On 24/04/2021 at 17:00, butlers said:

The free bus service is costed at less than a half million a year running cost.

 

 

 

 

 

plus a £1m+ to buy the new buses for it and even more to install new depot infrastructure given they are wanting electric buses!

 

Existing buses are already covering all the areas of the City Centre with no taxpayer subsidy.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Andy C

[Andy C 85]

You can download the current Sheffield network map including City Centre stops as a PDF at https://travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-gb/journeyplanning/public-transport-maps

 

This guide is probably the best version: https://travelsouthyorkshire.com/TSY/media/TSYMediaLibrary/Content pages/Journey planning/Public transport maps/South-Sheffield-Network-Map-and-Guide-valid-from-April-2021.pdf

Edited May 1, 2021 by Andy C

[RollingJ 1,993]

2 minutes ago, Andy C said:

Bus 31 was always a tendered service that required taxpayer subsidy from SYPTE to operate - it didn't sell enough tickets to be financially viable but was viewed as socially/economically important to the communities it served.

 

It became a victim of budget cuts under government public sector austerity policy when the funding available was reduced and only enough to pay for the evening and weekend service, however at that time Sheffield Community Transport chose to operate the weekday daytime service commercially which they were able to do on very thin margins as a result of resources from other contracts they had for tendered services. Unfortunately when they lost those other contracts it was no longer viable to run the 31 so they pulled it.

 

SYPTE had no budget to tender a replacement 31 so the existing service 135 was diverted off the main road to cover part of the route around Upperthorpe/Lower Walkley and the 52a was extended to Wisewood/Loxley to cover that part.

 

Now back to the point about the campaign by prospective councillors and the Star/Telegraph to fund a free bus in town - wouldn't giving communities that no longer have a local bus such as those that used to be on the 31 be a higher priority for funding?

It would, @Andy C- but then these candidates would have to look for a more sensible or concerning issue. Why duplicate already available services for the fun of it??

[BigAl1 142]

21 hours ago, Andy C said:

You can download the current Sheffield network map including City Centre stops as a PDF at https://travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-gb/journeyplanning/public-transport-maps

 

This guide is probably the best version: https://travelsouthyorkshire.com/TSY/media/TSYMediaLibrary/Content pages/Journey planning/Public transport maps/South-Sheffield-Network-Map-and-Guide-valid-from-April-2021.pdf

Great every time I want to catch a bus I need to download the map and then of course hope that they have not changed the stops and "forgotten" to update the map

22 hours ago, Andy C said:

Oldies have free bus passes so can use the normal buses and trams.

 

From the rail/bus station to Arundel Gate - bus 95/95a runs regular

From the rail/bus station to High Street and West Street - tram or 120 bus

From the bus station to Angel Street/Castlegate - 57, X17, X78

From the bus/rail station to Moorfoot - 56, 218, 272

From Arundel Gate to Moorfoot - 20,24,25,43,44,75,76,81,82.83,83a,88

To/from Pinstone Street - road closed.

The only bit of route the Freebee did that was unique was the road up from Arundel Gate to the town hall past the Crucible theatre and Winter Gardens.  As Pinstone Street is now closed this is no longer possible.

For someone with walking difficulties walking to the tram from the bus station is not the easiest of tasks and true there may be alternatives  to the freebie but of course this may involve finding where exactly to connect and catch the bus. On balance though I fell the money could be better spent

[Andy C 85]

21 minutes ago, Bigal1 said:

Great every time I want to catch a bus I need to download the map and then of course hope that they have not changed the stops and "forgotten" to update the map

For someone with walking difficulties walking to the tram from the bus station is not the easiest of tasks and true there may be alternatives  to the freebie but of course this may involve finding where exactly to connect and catch the bus. On balance though I fell the money could be better spent

tram is good from the rail station. 

 

from the bus station there are frequent buses - eg 95/95a/120 up High Street and West Street, 2/56/65/218/272 to Moorfoot. However, is there actually much need to get a connecting bus from the bus station these days? Other than National Express coaches, most buses that use the bus station also serve other parts of the City Centre.

 

A free bus would be no different to any other bus in terms of finding out where it goes or stops.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Andy C

[BigAl1 142]

tram is good from the rail station. 

 

Andy that was why I was specific about the bus station

[Annie Bynnol 611]

22 hours ago, Andy C said:

Oldies have free bus passes so can use the normal buses and trams.

 

From the rail/bus station to Arundel Gate - bus 95/95a runs regular

From the rail/bus station to High Street and West Street - tram or 120 bus

From the bus station to Angel Street/Castlegate - 57, X17, X78

From the bus/rail station to Moorfoot - 56, 218, 272

From Arundel Gate to Moorfoot - 20,24,25,43,44,75,76,81,82.83,83a,88

To/from Pinstone Street - road closed.

The only bit of route the Freebee did that was unique was the road up from Arundel Gate to the town hall past the Crucible theatre and Winter Gardens.  As Pinstone Street is now closed this is no longer possible.

The whole point of a circular bus route in a city centre is missed.

Alternative multiple routes does not work.

 

When lost in Manchester I use the Free Bus to get me where I want to be.

When your feet/bus/train/tram/car arrives at your drop off you need a round the town service so that you can hop on and hop off.

Many people are only familiar with a small number of services and should not be expected to be confused by two dozen buses, buses with two hour intervals, 3+ operators, alternative bus stops and not a single map.

 

Sadly when the Supertram route was designed forty years ago they did not expect the 'go to places" to move, leaving the tram stops more and more isolated.

 

 Most people in their 60s do not have a bus pass.

 

 

 

[Andy C 85]

12 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

The whole point of a circular bus route in a city centre is missed.

Alternative multiple routes does not work.

 

When lost in Manchester I use the Free Bus to get me where I want to be.

When your feet/bus/train/tram/car arrives at your drop off you need a round the town service so that you can hop on and hop off.

Many people are only familiar with a small number of services and should not be expected to be confused by two dozen buses, buses with two hour intervals, 3+ operators, alternative bus stops and not a single map.

 

Sadly when the Supertram route was designed forty years ago they did not expect the 'go to places" to move, leaving the tram stops more and more isolated.

 

 Most people in their 60s do not have a bus pass.

 

 

 

Sheffield isn't Manchester.

 

Sheffield's buses operate as part of a partnership and all are on one map (link previously posted) and day & weekly passes that work on everything are available.

 

You can split Sheffield City Centre into 3 zones of interest now really - The Moor, West Street/Division Street and bus/rail station.

 

There are 2 main transport corridors in the City Centre, which is partly down to the current road layouts - Arundel Gate to Moorfoot and Fitzalan Square to University plus links to/from the bus station. All already have high frequency buses plus we have the tram from the station up to the University which is very handy for those arriving by train.

 

Spending tax payers money on a free bus doing loops of the City Centre is not a high priority in my mind when more bread and butter parts of Sheffield's public transport infrastructure is suffering from a lack of funding. Lets get the journey to/from the City Centre more attractive first.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Andy C

[RollingJ 1,993]

8 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

The whole point of a circular bus route in a city centre is missed.

Alternative multiple routes does not work.

 

When lost in Manchester I use the Free Bus to get me where I want to be.

When your feet/bus/train/tram/car arrives at your drop off you need a round the town service so that you can hop on and hop off.

Many people are only familiar with a small number of services and should not be expected to be confused by two dozen buses, buses with two hour intervals, 3+ operators, alternative bus stops and not a single map.

 

Sadly when the Supertram route was designed forty years ago they did not expect the 'go to places" to move, leaving the tram stops more and more isolated.

 

 Most people in their 60s do not have a bus pass.

 

 

 

And most people in their 60's are probably fitter than those in their 20's.

 

As to your 'need a round the town' comment - where round the town? If you mean city centres, a large number are pedestrianised anyway - so no buses.