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The Labour Party - Part 2

Vaati

People who get personal with any further attacks in the thread will be suspended. As will any individuals using wording like Smarmer instead of Starmer etc.

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Labour needs to form an progressive alliance with other parties to have any hope of winning. Personal or ideology feelings need to be put aside the aim is to remove the Tories from government tactical voting and careful management of candidates in areas to get the best result are required. I would suggest to Labour look at how the Scottish National Party do things clearly they do something right given how Holyrood  PR system works. Starmer needs more fire at times he comes across a bit wooden but does well at Question Time better than Corbyn did. Boris Johnson plays into loveable clown act but he is thin skinned and easy to rattle their are weak points to aim at here along with holes in Tory policies just begging to be fired at for example the Northern Ireland mess . It may seem that Johnson is unstoppable but the vaccine bounce has helped them Covid has covered up some of the Brexit damage the pandemic has been an god send to the Tories but nothing can be hidden forever. Labour has to play the long game let the damage be seen by all if come out to soon the right wing media will say Labour is trying to take away the people's Brexit and so on. The party needs to let go of Corbyn's legacy and move on as a united party and prepared to work with others.

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It would be interesting to see if Labour's defence policy would be compatible with the one the Green Party has.

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30 minutes ago, GabrielC said:

Labour needs to form an progressive alliance with other parties to have any hope of winning. Personal or ideology feelings need to be put aside the aim is to remove the Tories from government tactical voting and careful management of candidates in areas to get the best result are required. I would suggest to Labour look at how the Scottish National Party do things clearly they do something right given how Holyrood  PR system works. Starmer needs more fire at times he comes across a bit wooden but does well at Question Time better than Corbyn did. Boris Johnson plays into loveable clown act but he is thin skinned and easy to rattle their are weak points to aim at here along with holes in Tory policies just begging to be fired at for example the Northern Ireland mess . It may seem that Johnson is unstoppable but the vaccine bounce has helped them Covid has covered up some of the Brexit damage the pandemic has been an god send to the Tories but nothing can be hidden forever. Labour has to play the long game let the damage be seen by all if come out to soon the right wing media will say Labour is trying to take away the people's Brexit and so on. The party needs to let go of Corbyn's legacy and move on as a united party and prepared to work with others.

Corbyn was much better than  predictable  Starmer at PMQ's especially when he read  out questions sent in by the public.

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36 minutes ago, GabrielC said:

Labour needs to form an progressive alliance with other parties to have any hope of winning.

Is that something that is likely to be agreed years before a general election, probably not.

It maybe done on a constituency basis, not across the whole coutry. The Brexit party stood aside in some constituencies, without any formal agreement.

I wonder if the Green or Liberal Domocrats would do that?

But then the Brexit party and the Tories are much better at political tactics and working together than any other party.

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Posted (edited)

Who would they form an alliance with?

Lib Dem? - they have constantly ruled out working with Labour

Greens? - Insignificant in parliament as to makes no difference

SNP? - Too interested in breaking away themselves

 

Labour needs to be worried about the Scots. If they go then there will be less seats in the Commons so the prospect of a Tory majority will be even greater. 

 

I watched some of Question Time last night (it was on after Look north and couldnt be bothered to change channel). Lisa Nandy was the "official" Labour rep along with unofficial Labour rep Paul Mason.

 

first question - Whats the point of the Labour Party?

Nandy's response - (after completely ignoring the question and getting reminded by Fiona to answer the question) "Well, ive been elected 4 times" (which she said twice in the first minute of her answer to the question)

 

She then accused Michelle Dewbury of still being a part of the Brexit party (while informing her again that she had been elected 4 times and using playground bully tactics of "how many times have you been elected") and had to be corrected on that. 

 

Dewbury then said that a lot of Labour people think brexiteers are racist xenaphobes so Nandy tried cutting her over (after Dewbury had allowed her to interrupt once already) saying that they dont (cut to shot of audience all nodding their heads saying they do)

Mason- if you dont vote labour then you are an oatmeal latte sipping middle class people or if you voted for the  Brexit party you are racist. 

 

If anyone else tried to criticise Labour, Nandy just cut in to interrupt. She didnt like it when the audience member just told her straight that she is part of the reason why people dont vote Labour (even shaking her head at the fact that someone dare criticise her, this is after calling Buckland arrogant for asking if the working class people of Swindon are stupid for voting tory)

 

The audience members told her straight, the SNP rep told her straight - You dont listen to your voters and you take them for granted, thats why you lost in record numbers and she just sits there shaking her head ignoring it.

 

And then when confronted over why Labour put a remainer candidate in at Hartlepool she was emphasising that she "hates the labels of remain/leave, etc." This was after calling Dewbury a brexit party member and Mason calling her a racist. She acted no more than a bully throughout the whole 22 minutes that the question got.

 

Well worth watching the first 22 minutes. or just skip to Bucklands response to Mason (who later said that L:abour should get ready for the socialist republic of Scotland) calling the people who run the country crooks at 21:00 "If you keep on insulting your opponents, you are insulting the people in their millions who voted for the conservative party....be respectful of who people vote for and they may get your vote." That one minute sums up why people dont vote Labour and to think Nandy wanted the top job.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000w1s6/question-time-2021-13052021

Edited by sheffbag

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Lib Dems are still nursing a bloody nose 11 years on, there's no way they'll make the coalition mistake again.

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7 hours ago, West 77 said:

Corbyn was much better than  predictable  Starmer at PMQ's especially when he read  out questions sent in by the public.

This is from Mary in Stannington.

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9 hours ago, sheffbag said:

Who would they form an alliance with?

Lib Dem? - they have constantly ruled out working with Labour

Greens? - Insignificant in parliament as to makes no difference

SNP? - Too interested in breaking away themselves

 

Labour needs to be worried about the Scots. If they go then there will be less seats in the Commons so the prospect of a Tory majority will be even greater. 

 

I watched some of Question Time last night (it was on after Look north and couldnt be bothered to change channel). Lisa Nandy was the "official" Labour rep along with unofficial Labour rep Paul Mason.

 

first question - Whats the point of the Labour Party?

Nandy's response - (after completely ignoring the question and getting reminded by Fiona to answer the question) "Well, ive been elected 4 times" (which she said twice in the first minute of her answer to the question)

 

She then accused Michelle Dewbury of still being a part of the Brexit party (while informing her again that she had been elected 4 times and using playground bully tactics of "how many times have you been elected") and had to be corrected on that. 

 

Dewbury then said that a lot of Labour people think brexiteers are racist xenaphobes so Nandy tried cutting her over (after Dewbury had allowed her to interrupt once already) saying that they dont (cut to shot of audience all nodding their heads saying they do)

Mason- if you dont vote labour then you are an oatmeal latte sipping middle class people or if you voted for the  Brexit party you are racist. 

 

If anyone else tried to criticise Labour, Nandy just cut in to interrupt. She didnt like it when the audience member just told her straight that she is part of the reason why people dont vote Labour (even shaking her head at the fact that someone dare criticise her, this is after calling Buckland arrogant for asking if the working class people of Swindon are stupid for voting tory)

 

The audience members told her straight, the SNP rep told her straight - You dont listen to your voters and you take them for granted, thats why you lost in record numbers and she just sits there shaking her head ignoring it.

 

And then when confronted over why Labour put a remainer candidate in at Hartlepool she was emphasising that she "hates the labels of remain/leave, etc." This was after calling Dewbury a brexit party member and Mason calling her a racist. She acted no more than a bully throughout the whole 22 minutes that the question got.

 

Well worth watching the first 22 minutes. or just skip to Bucklands response to Mason (who later said that L:abour should get ready for the socialist republic of Scotland) calling the people who run the country crooks at 21:00 "If you keep on insulting your opponents, you are insulting the people in their millions who voted for the conservative party....be respectful of who people vote for and they may get your vote." That one minute sums up why people dont vote Labour and to think Nandy wanted the top job.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000w1s6/question-time-2021-13052021

Lisa Nandy looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights . Student debater at best , as for Paul Mason , bitter springs to mind . Robert Buckland schooled them both.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, sheffbag said:

Well worth watching the first 22 minutes. or just skip to Bucklands response to Mason (who later said that L:abour should get ready for the socialist republic of Scotland) calling the people who run the country crooks at 21:00 "If you keep on insulting your opponents, you are insulting the people in their millions who voted for the conservative party....be respectful of who people vote for and they may get your vote." That one minute sums up why people dont vote Labour and to think Nandy wanted the top job.

Absolutely.  People like Mason and Nandy need to start showing Mr Johnson the same level of respect that the Tories, Lib Dems and New Labour showed to Mr Corbyn and his millions of voters.

 

You'd never have caught them or their supporters calling him a Communist, or a racist, or silly childish names like 'Compo'.

Edited by CaptainSwing

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11 hours ago, West 77 said:

Corbyn was much better than  predictable  Starmer at PMQ's especially when he read  out questions sent in by the public.

I agree.

If Starmer had worked with Corbyn instead of expelling him from the party he might well have held the Labour party together and had a much better result in the recent elections. 

 

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12 hours ago, sheffbag said:

Who would they form an alliance with?

Lib Dem? - they have constantly ruled out working with Labour

Greens? - Insignificant in parliament as to makes no difference

SNP? - Too interested in breaking away themselves

 

Labour needs to be worried about the Scots. If they go then there will be less seats in the Commons so the prospect of a Tory majority will be even greater. 

 

I watched some of Question Time last night (it was on after Look north and couldnt be bothered to change channel). Lisa Nandy was the "official" Labour rep along with unofficial Labour rep Paul Mason.

 

first question - Whats the point of the Labour Party?

Nandy's response - (after completely ignoring the question and getting reminded by Fiona to answer the question) "Well, ive been elected 4 times" (which she said twice in the first minute of her answer to the question)

 

She then accused Michelle Dewbury of still being a part of the Brexit party (while informing her again that she had been elected 4 times and using playground bully tactics of "how many times have you been elected") and had to be corrected on that. 

 

Dewbury then said that a lot of Labour people think brexiteers are racist xenaphobes so Nandy tried cutting her over (after Dewbury had allowed her to interrupt once already) saying that they dont (cut to shot of audience all nodding their heads saying they do)

Mason- if you dont vote labour then you are an oatmeal latte sipping middle class people or if you voted for the  Brexit party you are racist. 

 

If anyone else tried to criticise Labour, Nandy just cut in to interrupt. She didnt like it when the audience member just told her straight that she is part of the reason why people dont vote Labour (even shaking her head at the fact that someone dare criticise her, this is after calling Buckland arrogant for asking if the working class people of Swindon are stupid for voting tory)

 

The audience members told her straight, the SNP rep told her straight - You dont listen to your voters and you take them for granted, thats why you lost in record numbers and she just sits there shaking her head ignoring it.

 

And then when confronted over why Labour put a remainer candidate in at Hartlepool she was emphasising that she "hates the labels of remain/leave, etc." This was after calling Dewbury a brexit party member and Mason calling her a racist. She acted no more than a bully throughout the whole 22 minutes that the question got.

 

Well worth watching the first 22 minutes. or just skip to Bucklands response to Mason (who later said that L:abour should get ready for the socialist republic of Scotland) calling the people who run the country crooks at 21:00 "If you keep on insulting your opponents, you are insulting the people in their millions who voted for the conservative party....be respectful of who people vote for and they may get your vote." That one minute sums up why people dont vote Labour and to think Nandy wanted the top job.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000w1s6/question-time-2021-13052021

It happened at a local council level - Oxfordshire I think - where Labour didnt put up a candidate so it gave the lib dems a better chance. Libdems won.

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16 hours ago, hauxwell said:

Being excellent at the despatch box didn’t help Starmer win the  Hartlepool by-election. As you said in the, Israel-Palestinian Conflict topic, he’ll sort things out with his fancy foot work, personally I think the mans flat footed, so convince me otherwise.

 

I’m not faithful to any political party, so you tell me what his policies are for the future of this country then I will decide if he is worth supporting.

Nobody really knows that's the great mystery...

It appears to me Kier Starmer is to politics what Fred West was to patio laying...

 

 

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