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The Labour Party - Part 2

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7 hours ago, TyneSoft said:

Why is Starmer such a wet blanket? And is he really a Tory plant?

 

That's the only explanation why the Conservatives were so successful in the elections.

What about the explanation that they have been listening to the minority instead of the majority of voters that makes more sense and is probably right on the money 

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People saying Andy Burnham should take over Labour I don't think that will work after he oversaw the Rochdale incident to much mud to sling his way 

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6 hours ago, Baron99 said:

Remember all the discussions after Corbyn went about who should the replacement be?  A Northern woman was the general concensus.  But what did Lab end up with?  Another member of the Islington chattering classes. 

 

Someone made an intresting point on the radio yesterday.  They said in order to make Starmer more in tune with the Lab masses & the working class voters, he should drop the 'Sir' title, (which apparently he always insists on), along similar lines of when Tony Benn reduced his monikers. 

 

Starmer clearly has a problem when faced with the general public as he doesn't appear to be able to relate to the ordinary man & woman in the street.  He comes across as awkward & condescending.  Case in point, the other week when he had that altercation with that landlord who threw him out of his pub. 

 

The landlord was actually a Lab supporter who had confronted Starmer about his non-opposition to the Tories in general over the past year during the pandemic. 

 

As we know, the altercation ended up with Starmer having to embarrassingly leave the pub but interviewed shortly after, what was the comment from Starmer & bear in mind, he was speaking of a paid up Lab supporter; "I won't be lectured too by the likes of him (the pub landlord)." 

 

Very condescending. 

The actual quote as reported was:

"I really don't need lectures from you about this pandemic". Starmer said this after stressing the sacrifices frontline NHS staff had made during the pandemic, and that the pub landlord was complaining about the consequences of  restrictions on his business.

Very different to what you quoted as Starmer saying.

3 hours ago, convert said:

I’d be interested in seeing what the Labour contingent think of this piece.

 

https://unherd.com/2021/05/labour-isnt-working/

 

 

Quote 

Labour faces the prospect of being out of power for another decade or more — perhaps forever. That’s why the battle that currently rages for control of the party, between its liberal and radical wings, is the proverbial two bald men fighting over a comb. If either side wins, it will find that the instrument over which it had struggled for possession turns out to be of little practical use — at least as far as forming a government is concerned.

 

 

 

All political parties are coalitions Conservatives are, Liberal Democrats are, as well as Labour.

2 hours ago, GabrielC said:

My take on this . Labour perhaps needs an northern working class person as leader  not some middle class London based person. A person who knows what it feels like at the sharp end of life personal experience that makes relatable policy based on people needs. Look at the SNP they can win elections fight fire with fire the Tories do and win they play dirty playing nice does not win votes. The Tories may appear unstoppable but nothing is forever  a lot can happen before 2023/ 2024. 

Seeing as though Johnson found favour with the people from Hartlepool, I'm not sure why Labour needs a working class leader as such. Though I think your broader point about Labour needing candidates who are from a base  which connects with voters is a good one. As I recall from  reading other Labour MPs are making the point that in years gone by one of the ways that the PLP maintained contact with their base was having trade unionists standing as candidates. Obviously as trade unions have declined, this link has been fractured. But there are other ways.

Had Labour elected Lisa Nandy, Angela Rayner, or Jess Philips- something would be used to criticise them. Whatever it is. There is no perfect candidate. Look at Boris Johnson, is he the perfect candidate?

1 hour ago, El Cid said:

Mainstream parties tend to like teachers/doctors/bussiness people and the like as candidates, obviously all intelligent people.

And people see those things as a positive, not sure there are many 20 somethings straight out of uni.

How many people apply or want to be an MP?

 

Well, the local Labour candidate in Hartlepool is a GP working on the front line in the pandemic, and his wife is a nurse. The winning candidate was a resident of the Cayman Islands.

 

I think Labour are judged to a different set of criteria to Conservatives. People will forgive the Tories for a lot more. I cannot imagine either Jeremy Corbyn or Kier Starmer having one of the worst figures in the world on deaths from Covid, one of the worst recessions in centuries, allegations of sleaze and corruption, and on top of all that gain a Conservative stronghold. Just wouldn't happen.

Edited by Mister M

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2 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

So should Labour dumb it down and go for the flag shaggers? The so-called metropolitan elite would then vote lib dems and the Tories will still win.

 

You've had a recent choice of old man corbyn ("he's too left") and starmer ("He's too right and too posh, and he tries to do something funny with wallpaper") and voted for an Eton toff who is a proven liar.  On reflection Labour didnt help themselves with their choice of candidate in hartlepool and at a local level SCC probably needed a freshen up. But thousands still voted Tory after the 14 months we've had, rather than an imperfect Labour, lib dems, greens. And that's OK just dont think youre going to get shafted less than the rest of us. I fear the good people of hartlepool will find that out quickly.

I'll bet Hartlepool get extra investment from the Conservatives and see big improvements on what labour did for them over the last 40 odd years like Sheffield all we see is a decline while investment goes to select estates 

7 minutes ago, Mister M said:

The actual quote as reported was:

"I really don't need lectures from you about this pandemic". Starmer said this after stressing the sacrifices frontline NHS staff had made during the pandemic, and that the pub landlord was complaining about the consequences of  restrictions on his business.

Very different to what you quoted as Starmer saying.

All political parties are coalitions Conservatives are, Liberal Democrats are, as well as Labour.

Seeing as though Johnson found favour with the people from Hartlepool, I'm not sure why Labour needs a working class leader as such. Though I think your broader point about Labour needing candidates who are from a base  which connects with voters is a good one. As I recall from  reading other Labour MPs are making the point that in years gone by one of the ways that the PLP maintained contact with their base was having trade unionists standing as candidates. Obviously as trade unions have declined, this link has been fractured. But there are other ways.

Had Labour elected Lisa Nandy, Angela Rayner, or Jess Philips- something would be used to criticise them. Whatever it is. There is no perfect candidate. Look at Boris Johnson, is he the perfect candidate?

Well, the local Labour candidate in Hartlepool is a GP working on the front line in the pandemic, and his wife is a nurse. The winning candidate was a resident of the Cayman Islands.

But the Labour candidate was pro brexit and a proven hypocrite 

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47 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Well, the local Labour candidate in Hartlepool is a GP working on the front line in the pandemic, and his wife is a nurse. The winning candidate was a resident of the Cayman Islands.

 

 

I think that is somewhat disingenuous, apparently she and family lived there for a year with her husband who is a regulator of financial services.

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I didn’t think Labour could do any worse than the 2019 GE, however they have exceeded my expectations.


so far they’ve lost 4 councils and 212 council seats.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Consheff said:

I'll bet Hartlepool get extra investment from the Conservatives and see big improvements on what labour did for them over the last 40 odd years like Sheffield all we see is a decline while investment goes to select estates 

But the Labour candidate was pro brexit and a proven hypocrite 

So, bribery then. Vote for us and we'll help you, don't vote for us and we'll make you suffer. That's an abusive relationship. Yet oddly, hartlepool voted out of the EU in huge numbers despite the north east being net recipients of EU funds and got more EU money than anywhere in the UK.

 

I hope they get help, but we'll see how much they will actually get.

8 minutes ago, convert said:

I didn’t think Labour could do any worse than the 2019 GE, however they have exceeded my expectations.


so far they’ve lost 4 councils and 212 council seats.

 

 

 

But it looks like they gained Kent.

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13 minutes ago, convert said:

I didn’t think Labour could do any worse than the 2019 GE, however they have exceeded my expectations.


so far they’ve lost 4 councils and 212 council seats.

 

 

 

increased representation in the senedd have won at least 5 mayoralties

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https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/politics/labour-brought-city-into-a-bad-light-on-national-stage-says-party-activist-3229349 

 

In all honesty I don't think councilor fox is a bad shout he's councilor for a deprived neglected area and once tried to oust Julie dore

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4 minutes ago, Consheff said:

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/politics/labour-brought-city-into-a-bad-light-on-national-stage-says-party-activist-3229349

 

In all honesty I don't think councilor fox is a bad shout he's councilor for a deprived neglected area and once tried to oust Julie dore

Not sure i agree with the central premise that the city has been brought into a bad light on the national stage. 

 

Apart from the trees, Streets Ahead has more or less worked, the roads are certainly far better driving than they used to be and there wasn't an alternative on offer 

 

There may be some issues with the wider perception of the party leadership and central organisation but i'm not sure that's thrown the city in a bad light any more than anywhere else.

 

Regardless of the result of the governanence referendum, the new council has a choice. They can stand around and shout at each other or try and work together for the betterment of all. If they do the former then we're all stuffed, if they do the latter then who knows what the next election will bring. 

 

You never know, they might come up with something that can help rehabilitate labour at the national level and that would be a fine thing :) 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, andyofborg said:

Not sure i agree with the central premise that the city has been brought into a bad light on the national stage. 

 

Apart from the trees, Streets Ahead has more or less worked, the roads are certainly far better driving than they used to be and there wasn't an alternative on offer 

 

There may be some issues with the wider perception of the party leadership and central organisation but i'm not sure that's thrown the city in a bad light any more than anywhere else.

 

Regardless of the result of the governanence referendum, the new council has a choice. They can stand around and shout at each other or try and work together for the betterment of all. If they do the former then we're all stuffed, if they do the latter then who knows what the next election will bring. 

 

You never know, they might come up with something that can help rehabilitate labour at the national level and that would be a fine thing :) 

 

 

 

 

Spot on I suspect there will be a lot of infighting and slating of cons greens libs because that's how they always roll

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53 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

So, bribery then. Vote for us and we'll help you, don't vote for us and we'll make you suffer. That's an abusive relationship. Yet oddly, hartlepool voted out of the EU in huge numbers despite the north east being net recipients of EU funds and got more EU money than anywhere in the UK.

The problem with that and also elsewhere is just because an area receives more EU funds it does not mean the people perceive themselves as better off as it depends on how that money is spent. Sheffield for instance received money from the EU on several occasions and we also had that failed EU funded broadband project.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Consheff said:

Spot on I suspect there will be a lot of infighting and slating of cons greens libs because that's how they always roll

Labour will have to work with the rest as it's now outnumbered at 41 to 43.

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