The Labour Party - Part 2

[nightrider 13]

20 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

No nation can carry on printing money indefinitely or there would be no nations on earth with debts and we would all be as rich as lottery winners.

Printing extra money causes the value of the pound (or whatever) to fall and causes roaring inflation so you eventually need a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread.

That's what happened in Germany in the early 30's.

No country would bother with careful and prudent budgets if it were as easy as that.

This subject has been discussed in full on these Forums.

I also wouldn't recommend Twitter as the place to get tutorage on International Finance.

Germany in the 30's had a different set of circumstances to the UK now.

 

QE has been going on for a decade - no sign of hyperinflation so far which suggests we are not near the limit of what is possible yet.

[Organgrinder 1,946]

8 minutes ago, nightrider said:

Germany in the 30's had a different set of circumstances to the UK now.

 

QE has been going on for a decade - no sign of hyperinflation so far which suggests we are not near the limit of what is possible yet.

We sure will be if we try to print ourselves out of this lot which we have just spent.

If printing money is such an easy answer why are there so many poor nations on this planet and why  can we never afford to do the things which are really needed.

Do you think we could have printed our way out of debt and Cameron's austerity was not needed at all.

Ask Rishi why he is warning us about the forthcoming belt tightening when he could print money, double the NHS and still have money to spare.

That is Alice in Wonderland financing.

[Mister M 1,608]

On 01/03/2021 at 14:19, apelike said:

You keep going on about Neoliberalism as if it is something new when it's really just capitalism with a new name. One of the most popular things Maggie did, and I'm no fan as I lost a good job because of her, was to change the way taxation was applied. Instead of high direct wage taxation she changed it to indirect taxation and people could see that they were immediately better off when it came to earnings, and it proved popular with the voters. Remember what it was like under a Wilson government... 

 

 

 

As for the bit in bold... We have not lost the NHS to privatisation, and environmental damage and climate change has been going on since before the Neoliberalist buzzword from the 80s. Not saying it is right but remember the smogs in the 60s and why we got the clean air act. 

 

Foot, Kinnock, Miliband and Corbyn were not hounded out of office by the establishment. Voters didn't want them as they were seen to be weak and just full of promises in order to get elected. When Kinnock was up for election I voted Green as I just couldn't stand the man, he was a good speaker but that was about it. Now look at him, just another millionaire. Miliband had no chance as he projected weakness as a leader, a bit like Hague. Corbyn may have had a few good ideas but they needed to be coupled with a strong charismatic leader and that he was not. Unfortunately whether you like it or not the latter is important in this modern internet age, Charisma is part and parcel for being successful and politicians now want to act like stars. Just look at the latest crop of Boris, Macron or Sarkozy to see how it works.

 

All I can say to that is.. it's just your opinion. I for one is at an age where I just dont worry about it anymore as it up to the newer generations to do something about it as its their future and mine is limited.

 

Which is basically incompatible with the neoliberalism and capitalism you are on about.

What is charismatic about Johnson? He's scruffy, constantly lies, makes a virtue out of being offensive and is incompetent.

Oh yeah and Sarkozy has just been sentenced to a prison term in the last couple of days

Edited March 3, 2021 by Mister M

[apelike 10]

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

What is charismatic about Johnson? He's scruffy, constantly lies, makes a virtue out of being offensive and is incompetent.

And yet people overwhelmingly voted for him and the conservatives in the last election. Oh yes, and he is well in the lead when it comes to Starmer despite how well Starmer looks and speaks. Strange that eh!

 

Quote

Oh yeah and Sarkozy has just been sentenced to a prison term in the last couple of days

And...  he will be happy to  be able to serve it out at home!

 

Bland wishy-washy people do not make good leaders or inspire confidence no matter how well they speak. Foot, Kinnock, Miliband, Corbyn and also Hague found that out.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by apelike

[Mister M 1,608]

1 hour ago, apelike said:

And yet people overwhelmingly voted for him and the conservatives in the last election. Oh yes, and he is well in the lead when it comes to Starmer despite how well Starmer looks and speaks. Strange that eh!

 

And...  he will be happy to  be able to serve it out at home!

 

Bland wishy-washy people do not make good leaders or inspire confidence. Foot, Kinnock, Miliband, Corbyn and also Hague found that out.

 

 

The vote for the Conservatives at the last election was chiefly about Brexit. Foot, Kinnock and Corbyn might be lots of things, but they're not bland or 'wishy washy'.

For all the flack and derision that Michael Foot took in 1983 from the *****hawks in the gutter press for wearing a warm coat in winter at the cenotaph, hardly any of the said guttersnipes mention Johnson's drunken appearance at the cenotaph a couple of years ago; nor his slovenly demeanour, or the fact that he could make a good stand in for Worzil Gummidge. 

One of the worst death rates in the world from Covid 19, despite the fact that the UK is an island nation, and notwithstanding that Johnson secured his victory last year by 'controlling our borders'. He can't even control his base sexual instincts 

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Mister M

[apelike 10]

4 minutes ago, Mister M said:

The vote for the Conservatives at the last election was chiefly about Brexit.

I pretty much agree with that but dear old dishevelled Boris is still charging ahead in the polls despite the election being in 2019 and the conclusion of our Brexit departure as is. To be honest I think he will also serve another term or maybe two despite me saying a while ago I thought he would stand down in January.

 

4 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Foot, Kinnock and Corbyn might be lots of things, but they're not bland or 'wishy washy'.

But that's how they and their policies appeared to the public. I remember Kinnock falling over at the beach and then appealing to the press not to publish the pictures. Falling over was not the problem but the latter was. If they were not seen as weak or bland or wishy-washy then why didn't they get voted in and end up forming governments, and please don't just say because the press hounded them!

 

[Longcol 597]

13 minutes ago, apelike said:

I pretty much agree with that but dear old dishevelled Boris is still charging ahead in the polls despite the election being in 2019 and the conclusion of our Brexit departure as is. To be honest I think he will also serve another term or maybe two despite me saying a while ago I thought he would stand down in January.

 

But that's how they and their policies appeared to the public. I remember Kinnock falling over at the beach and then appealing to the press not to publish the pictures. Falling over was not the problem but the latter was. If they were not seen as weak or bland or wishy-washy then why didn't they get voted in and end up forming governments, and please don't just say because the press hounded them!

 

Because their policies were portrayed as "extreme" left wing by the bulk of the UK press....................

[Anna B 1,401]

27 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Because their policies were portrayed as "extreme" left wing by the bulk of the UK press....................

Indeed.

Yet the Tories have been moving inexorably further and further to the right, doing no end of damage, with barely a word being said about it.

Why is that? 

[the_bloke 17]

16 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Because their policies were portrayed as "extreme" left wing by the bulk of the UK press....................

I'm sure that had a huge impact. The well co-ordinated 2019 election twitter/facebook/instagram/web/viral campaigning by thousands of paid and unpaid Labour staff and supporters failed to motivate the millions of people who are glued to social media every minute of the day, and in the end those millions were swayed by the opinions of the editorial team of the Daily Mail, the newspaper of OAPs.

 

I'm being sarcastic by the way.

 

The rising irrelevance and reduction in power of the printed press over the last 10 years is only matched by the continuing irrelevance and reduction of popularity of Labour amongst the electorate. The moaning about the press being the enemy is hollow when research shows fewer and fewer people watch the news on TV or buy a newspaper yet the cries of the press being 'the enemy' are just as loud now as when Kinnock blamed the press when he resigned.

 

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0027/157914/uk-news-consumption-2019-report.pdf

[Anna B 1,401]

1 hour ago, the_bloke said:

I'm sure that had a huge impact. The well co-ordinated 2019 election twitter/facebook/instagram/web/viral campaigning by thousands of paid and unpaid Labour staff and supporters failed to motivate the millions of people who are glued to social media every minute of the day, and in the end those millions were swayed by the opinions of the editorial team of the Daily Mail, the newspaper of OAPs.

 

I'm being sarcastic by the way.

 

The rising irrelevance and reduction in power of the printed press over the last 10 years is only matched by the continuing irrelevance and reduction of popularity of Labour amongst the electorate. The moaning about the press being the enemy is hollow when research shows fewer and fewer people watch the news on TV or buy a newspaper yet the cries of the press being 'the enemy' are just as loud now as when Kinnock blamed the press when he resigned.

 

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0027/157914/uk-news-consumption-2019-report.pdf

It's almost impossible not to be influenced by the media.

How else do we get our impressions of what's going on in the world? 

Our own first hand experience is very limited. However we are constantly bombarded by words and images that shape our knowledge and understanding of the outside world from whatever source.

Social media's tendency toward confirmation bias does nothing to encourage a balanced view.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Anna B

[RJRB 688]

Regrettably I am finding Starmer a disappointment already.

On a number of subjects he criticises the government,but is unable or unwilling to offer credible alternatives.

His own past voting record is thrown back in his face and as for his supposedly forensic legal approach,well it doesn’t shine through at PMQs.

Today he was intent on comparing the Cummings pay rise with that offered to nurses.

Its pretty obvious that there is no comparison in terms of the costs to the economy.

All too often he seems to pursue a series of scripted questions irrespective of any response,whilst Johnson is allowed to bluster his way through.

 

[MrAllen2K21 0]

On 04/03/2021 at 00:36, Anna B said:

Indeed.

Yet the Tories have been moving inexorably further and further to the right, doing no end of damage, with barely a word being said about it.

Why is that? 

Because the Tories were voted in by right wing Daily Mail and Telegraph readers, go figure. I mean come on it's well known these people hate the world and everyone in it especially if they're an immigrant, disabled, on benefits, gay, unemployed...

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by MrAllen2K21
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