tinfoilhat   11 #469 Posted December 16, 2020 44 minutes ago, Padders said: Bring back, Tony Benn, John Presscott, Arthur Scargill, or my hero Dennis Skinner, lets have some old fashioned electioneering. You know that Skinner lost his seat at the last election. He didn't retire he was beaten by a Tory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Pettytom   1 #470 Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Anna B said: I don't think Starmer has that many fans anywhere.... Comes across as a bit limp and drippy to me. Instead of thinking, why not have a look at the evidence  Starmer’s satisfaction ratings are very good. Opinion polls suggest that Labour is doing much better under Starmer than it was doing under Corbyn.  Of course, if you want to rely on your own prejudices, that is your prerogative. It doesn’t make you right though. 23 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said: You know that Skinner lost his seat at the last election. He didn't retire he was beaten by a Tory. It would be even harder to bring back Tony Benn.  Unless you are skilled with a Ouija board Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
drolnhoj   15 #471 Posted December 16, 2020 52 minutes ago, Mister M said: He wasn't wise after the event when in September he called for a second national lockdown, The government ignored him, and the medical advisers, only to go into a lockdown 4 weeks later. His solution was for Johnson to listen to his medical advisers and PHE. As to your point about 'scoring cheap points'. Er no, throughout much of he lockdown, he supported the Government, offering his support, in spite of him leading Her Majesty's opposition, so it is his constitutional role to oppose the Government I did say it was my opion and I did say the scoring of cheap points applies to all parties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Mister M   1,603 #472 Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, drolnhoj said: I did say it was my opion and I did say the scoring of cheap points applies to all parties. Fair point. But in fairness I only pointed out facts that countered your opinion of Starmer. Edited December 16, 2020 by Mister M Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Mister M   1,603 #473 Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, West 77 said: Starmer was calling for a circuit  breaker similar to what has happened in Wales.  At the moment Wales is one of the worse areas in the UK for Covid infections. I'm not criticising the actions in Wales because they took the action with good intentions. The truth is when restrictions are eased Covid infections increase. I don't honestly believe the UK would have coped any better with the Covid virus under a Starmer led Labour Government than it has under a Boris Johnson led Tory Government  Circuit breaker....lockdown.....Johnson complained at the time it only "offered endless misery", only to implement that 'endless misery 4 weeks later' I doubt whether a Starmer led Government would've been so late to lock down in the Spring. Many workplaces, including my own locked down a couple of weeks before the Government made their decision. Many European countries also locked down earlier. If you remember, former government modeller Neil Ferguson thinks has cost tens of thousands of lives.  I'm certain the track and trace wouldn't have gone to Dido Harding, wife of the anti corruption Tsar John Penrose MP. Labour have been consistently calling for track and trace to be localised. These localised systems have performed much better than the SERCO one. If you also remember,  the UK shut down its testing regime too soon, leaving it unable to track the speed and spread of the virus. During February and March, opportunities to suppress the spread of infection by introducing travel restrictions and quarantine requirements were missed, allowing the infection to be brought into the UK on at least 1,300 occasions. The app when it did arrive, was 4 months late, and has been beset with problem after problem.  Government scientists said at the time that Britain came out of its first lock down too soon. Starmer has been consistent throughout stating that the Government should not only say, but actually "follow the science." Would Starmer have signed off on the policy to hand over contracts to private companies without competitive tendering or even a cursory check on whether they are up to the job? I doubt Labour would've been so sanguine. It's Boris Johnson, not Kier Starmer who views unions, local government leaders and professional bodies as powerful interest groups and influential lobbies to be thwarted, not listened to.  Under pressure from many of his backbenchers and probably powerful financial backers, Johnson encouraged Conservative government urged workers to return to offices to prevent city centers becoming ghost towns and tempted people back to restaurants with discounts. That worked economically, however research suggests that it also caused a spike in COVID cases (Eat Out to Help Out: crowded restaurants may have driven UK coronavirus spike – new findings (theconversation.com).  I believe in  for Labour Sadiq Khan in London was calling for mask earing to be compulsory back in April. He was mocked of course by the Telegraph etc, whose opinion writers spoke about 'muzzles' and Khan secretly wanting a 'muslimification of Britain'. Masks were compulsory by the government for shops in July.  To give the Government credit, they did set up the Nightingale Hospitals early, and they were extremely proactive in the first lockdown in getting homeless people off the streets & into hostels & hotels. They have also been financially supportive of many businesses that have had to close due to COVID restrictions.     Edited December 16, 2020 by Mister M Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Mister M   1,603 #474 Posted December 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, West 77 said: Well done Mister Gee for giving the Tory Government led by Boris Johnson  credit for the Nightingale hospitals. Mister M. No they have got some things right & it is fair to point out what they did right, as what they did wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
nikki-red   307 #475 Posted December 16, 2020 Can we at least try to stay on topic please? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Mister M   1,603 #476 Posted December 16, 2020 1 minute ago, West 77 said: I think you and Mister Gee both must agree that the Tory led Government have done the right thing regarding the sourcing and getting Covid 19 vaccines approved for giving to the population.  The vaccines have to be approved by the MHRA, and can't be pressurised into approval for obvious reasons. But yes, I would expect any Government to do the same, and the vast majority of them are. 1 minute ago, nikki-red said: Can we at least try to stay on topic please? Sorry! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #477 Posted December 16, 2020 2 hours ago, West 77 said: Well done Mister Gee for giving the Tory Government led by Boris Johnson  credit for the Nightingale hospitals. Couldn't staff them - not enough medical staff, but as a logistics exercise it was first class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Mister M Â Â 1,603 #478 Posted December 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said: Couldn't staff them - not enough medical staff, but as a logistics exercise it was first class. Oh yeah, I forgot about that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
alchresearch   213 #479 Posted December 17, 2020 18 hours ago, drolnhoj said: Starmer is very eloquent but he is always wise after the event. He never offers any constructive solutions. To be fair, that's the whole point and advantage of being the opposition.  Why should they help "the enemy". Their role is sadly to watch the party in power crash and burn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
hobinfoot   25 #480 Posted December 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, alchresearch said: To be fair, that's the whole point and advantage of being the opposition.  Why should they help "the enemy". Their role is sadly to watch the party in power crash and burn. Because we like the rest of the world are in a crisis and it’s up to all to help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...