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The Labour Party - Part 2

Vaati

People who get personal with any further attacks in the thread will be suspended. As will any individuals using wording like Smarmer instead of Starmer etc.

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The law can be changed to make anything illegal if you can persuade enough people to allow it through the democratic process- on the presumption that we want the latter.

 

I have shares in companies which will likely have assisted in their growth, but this 'enrichment' can soon turn to 'impoverishment' when companys' fortunes decline; it can be a two way street.

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3 hours ago, Delbow said:

Are you saying no-one owns shares for their personal enrichment? That all shares held are held for the benefit of a pension fund?

No.

 

I will remind you of what I previously said....

 

Quote:

 

"The shares have already been bought and a lot of peoples pension funds also rely on that."

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

No.

 

I will remind you of what I previously said....

 

Quote:

 

"The shares have already been bought and a lot of peoples pension funds also rely on that."

 

 

 

 

Yes, which I answered. If you're making an additional point I don't know what it is I'm afraid.

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20 minutes ago, Delbow said:

We're talking about it in the context of changing the law. So it's not illegal if it's made legal, obviously. Anything else?

Yes. 

 

I can just imagine what would happen if Labour announced in their the next election manifesto the intent to do just that, probably end up with less seats than the Lib/Dems..... :hihi:

 

Changing a law is not such an easy process as you make out.

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Just now, Dromedary said:

Yes. 

 

I can just imagine what would happen if Labour announced in their the next election manifesto the intent to do just that, probably end up with less seats than the Lib/Dems..... :hihi:

 

Changing a law is not such an easy process as you make out.

You make a good point about being honest with the electorate - if Labour really wanted to change things (don't worry, they don't) they would probably have to copy the Tory tactic of keeping quiet about it or lying about it in the run up.

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1 minute ago, Delbow said:

You make a good point about being honest with the electorate -

Since when have manifestos been honest?

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

Since when have manifestos been honest?

 

 

 

Well, one of Corbyn's faults was that he wasn't ruthless enough. I think Labour's manifesto was genuinely what he wanted to do. The winning strategy is to do things early in parliament that you never said you would do (or lied that you wouldn't do - "no top down reform of the NHS") and then trust the British to forget all about it.

Edited by Delbow

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On 07/04/2022 at 09:03, harvey19 said:

What is Labour's solution to the above ?

Get shut off this lot , it will only get worse . Until people wake up ,don’t judge a book looking at its cover, give someone else a chance it’s the only way . Think about after the second war . Did they all march back and vote  the party that was in while the war was on. . 

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43 minutes ago, Slinny said:

Get shut off this lot , it will only get worse . Until people wake up ,don’t judge a book looking at its cover, give someone else a chance it’s the only way .

That's why we have democratic elections to do just that or keep what we have. Just because some are unhappy with the democratic process all parties have the same chance of getting into power when the electorate vote. So far there is not one opposition party fit enough and solid enough to get into power and replace the conservatives.

 

43 minutes ago, Slinny said:

Think about after the second war . Did they all march back and vote  the party that was in while the war was on. . 

No because it was a coalition. Labour got into power in 1945 but despite its creation of the NHS and the welfare state it only lasted a meagre 6 years. The conservative were then back in power in 1951 for a further 13 years.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Dromedary said:

That's why we have democratic elections to do just that or keep what we have. Just because some are unhappy with the democratic process all parties have the same chance of getting into power when the electorate vote. So far there is not one opposition party fit enough and solid enough to get into power and replace the conservatives.

 

No because it was a coalition. Labour got into power in 1945 but despite its creation of the NHS and the welfare state it only lasted a meagre 6 years. The conservative were then back in power in 1951 for a further 13 years.

After the war there was a mood for something different. It had been building since well before the war with the grinding down of the working class, the depressions etc. The scene was set for change.

Labour brought in the NHS, free higher education and the welfare state. 

I think a lot of people thought the job was done.

 

I certainly did. I thought they were here in perpetuity.  

They certainly brought about the most egalitarian period in our history IMO.

However I was wrong. They are now being rolled back by the current Conservative government, which shouldn't really be a surprise, as they are the party of business, and see everyone else simply as worker drones and a tax cash cow.

The balance is gone, and we can see again how important that is.

 

I agree there isn't a decent opposition party strong enough to do it.

The Tories play dirty, and a party like Labour that believes in fairness is always going to be at a disadvantage.

 

Edited by Anna B
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It is no good just changing conservative for labour if labour have no realistic plan how to change things.

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2 hours ago, harvey19 said:

It is no good just changing conservative for labour if labour have no realistic plan how to change things.

True.

Why do you think there was such strong support for Corbyn who would have changed things.

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