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The Labour Party - Part 2

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1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

A bit like watching Labour's, York MP, Rachael Maskell being interviewed on Look North tonight. 

 

She was asked for her views on the impromptu street parties which took place in central York over the weekend after the pubs closed at 10pm, following concerns raised by her constituents. 

 

Shown a video of large groups out on the streets, absolutely no social-distancing & very few with face coverings, then asked her opinion of the incident, was their any condemnation of those on the streets?  Of course not.  Their reckless actions were of course the fault of the Govt. 

I think it is partially the fault of the government. Rather than people drifting away from a pub from 10 - 10.30 til closing time, they all pour out bang on ten after going in early.  It was going to happen and somewhere like York (not under lockdown, large student population, touristy) it was going to be magnified. 

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3 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Corbyn tried what??

 

He was one of the worst for that sort of behaviour.   Petty squabbles, exageration, stubbornness, unwilling to compromise or concede.   He made a backbench career for 30+ years of going against the grain and troublemaking.   He still hasn't learnt to this day as is shown by his pot stirring and commending those who go against the new leader. 

 

"What happened to him" as you say, was well deserved.  Good riddance.   Unfit for the job, polarised the electorate, worst defeat in decades - stop trying to pretend he was anything else.

No, Corbyn was a decent, honest politician who stood for election as leader not for riches or because of an enormous ego , but  because he recognised that the electorate was disillusioned and desperate for change, to the point where they were refusing to vote, after 40 years of Tory rule (including neo-Tory Tony Blair,) for fear of just more of the same no matter which party got in.

Corbyn represented the real change people wanted, and he wanted the best for the working class, rather than being manipulated by the real rulers, the elite big business corporate bosses and lobbyists whose only interest is to line their own pockets. Unfortunately he was too effective, and so frightened the establishment that they went full pelt into a  viscious propaganda war against him, to discredit him and bring him down.

Anyone who is interested in politics and has bothered to study the process, the man and his beliefs know this to be true.

 

Anyway, it succeeded. They managed to destroy his reputation in the minds of those who didn't full understand what  going on, (even though he still managed to win more votes than Blair ever did, and increased his majority to 61%) and we now have another Leader, ToryLite Keir Starmer, or Tony Blair mk2.  But then the Establishment will never let the Hoi Polloi have a leader that sticks up for them or that they can't control, because that's the way the Elite like it.

 

So back to square one. The rich continue to get richer and, with the storm that's coming, the poorest (and a fair few not so poor) are going to be ground into the dust.

 

Normal service has been resumed....

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Anna B

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6 hours ago, Anna B said:

No, Corbyn was a decent, honest politician who stood for election as leader not for riches or because of an enormous ego , but  because he recognised that the electorate was disillusioned and desperate for change, to the point where they were refusing to vote, after 40 years of Tory rule (including neo-Tory Tony Blair,) for fear of just more of the same no matter which party got in.

Corbyn represented the real change people wanted, and he wanted the best for the working class, rather than being manipulated by the real rulers, the elite big business corporate bosses and lobbyists whose only interest is to line their own pockets. Unfortunately he was too effective, and so frightened the establishment that they went full pelt into a  viscious propaganda war against him, to discredit him and bring him down.

Anyone who is interested in politics and has bothered to study the process, the man and his beliefs know this to be true.

 

Anyway, it succeeded. They managed to destroy his reputation in the minds of those who didn't full understand what  going on, (even though he still managed to win more votes than Blair ever did, and increased his majority to 61%) and we now have another Leader, ToryLite Keir Starmer, or Tony Blair mk2.  But then the Establishment will never let the Hoi Polloi have a leader that sticks up for them or that they can't control, because that's the way the Elite like it.

 

So back to square one. The rich continue to get richer and, with the storm that's coming, the poorest (and a fair few not so poor) are going to be ground into the dust.

 

Normal service has been resumed....

 

 

 

 

 

My bold. 

 

Well clearly the electorate weren't THAT DESPERATE for a change were we?  Your bog standard voter, including millions of long standing Labour voters, as was displayed at the election just didn't trust him & it's no good raising the perception of a Right-wing media conspiracy?  I know many a staunch Labour supporter who'd run a mile if you waved a copy of The Sun or Daily Mail at them & you do a disservice to millions of ordinary voters who just saw through him & his tired, hard Left rhetoric. 

 

It wasn't what he was saying in the run up to the election what people feared, it was what he & the likes of his Momentum cronies, who had wangled their way into positions of power on such as Labour's NEC & targeted long standing, well liked Labour, feared. 

 

He wasn't THAT EFFECTIVE was he?  Except of course in totally destroying the Labour vote & devastating the Labour heartlands. 

 

To sum up.  Let's remember that he only got a shot at the Labour leadership after Prescott put him up as a joke candidate to try & balance out the leadership contest. No nobody ever thought he'd win the thing.  I don't recall Prescott ever chucking his weight behind Corbyn after he won the Labour leadership? Quite the contrary, he quickly distanced himself when he saw the monster he created. 

 

As for blaming the Right-wing media?  Tired old argument, conspiracy theory nonsense just put about by a paranoid, sorry bunch of failed Left-wing activists, who haven't moved on from their student politics days forever playing the martyrs. 

 

It's time to move on.  If it was me, rather than continuing to drag the embarrassment that was the Corbyn debacle back up, I'd want to bury it quickly & hope people would forget about it entirely. 

 

The simple truth is, if you want to be elected; you have to be electable in the first place. 

Edited by Baron99

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10 hours ago, Anna B said:

No, Corbyn was a decent, honest politician who stood for election as leader not for riches or because of an enormous ego , but  because he recognised that the electorate was disillusioned and desperate for change, to the point where they were refusing to vote, after 40 years of Tory rule (including neo-Tory Tony Blair,) for fear of just more of the same no matter which party got in.

Corbyn represented the real change people wanted, and he wanted the best for the working class, rather than being manipulated by the real rulers, the elite big business corporate bosses and lobbyists whose only interest is to line their own pockets. Unfortunately he was too effective, and so frightened the establishment that they went full pelt into a  viscious propaganda war against him, to discredit him and bring him down.

Anyone who is interested in politics and has bothered to study the process, the man and his beliefs know this to be true.

 

Anyway, it succeeded. They managed to destroy his reputation in the minds of those who didn't full understand what  going on, (even though he still managed to win more votes than Blair ever did, and increased his majority to 61%) and we now have another Leader, ToryLite Keir Starmer, or Tony Blair mk2.  But then the Establishment will never let the Hoi Polloi have a leader that sticks up for them or that they can't control, because that's the way the Elite like it.

 

So back to square one. The rich continue to get richer and, with the storm that's coming, the poorest (and a fair few not so poor) are going to be ground into the dust.

 

Normal service has been resumed....

 

 

 

 

 

True enough.

Corbyn's downfall was to allow the party (especially Starmer) to try and keep us in Europe against the wishes of the majority who voted to leave.

I have voted Labour all my life but ditched them because of their refusal to honour their promise to respect the Referendum results.

I will never vote for a party led by Starmer or indeed, any party which refuses to tell us what their policies are.

I believe that Labour will still try to

Keep us in Europe or re-join Europe or give way to Europe and allow the European courts to carry on over-ruling us for the sake of a deal which will favour Europe and work against us.

As one of our other contributors said recently, "I would live on bread & water first"

Let's get the Tory leaners out of the Labour Party.

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1 hour ago, Organgrinder said:

True enough.

Corbyn's downfall was to allow the party (especially Starmer) to try and keep us in Europe against the wishes of the majority who voted to leave.

I have voted Labour all my life but ditched them because of their refusal to honour their promise to respect the Referendum results.

I will never vote for a party led by Starmer or indeed, any party which refuses to tell us what their policies are.

I believe that Labour will still try to

Keep us in Europe or re-join Europe or give way to Europe and allow the European courts to carry on over-ruling us for the sake of a deal which will favour Europe and work against us.

As one of our other contributors said recently, "I would live on bread & water first"

Let's get the Tory leaners out of the Labour Party.

Actually Corbyn didn't advocate staying in Europe, he wanted a reassessment of all the information we had now, and a second vote.

 

The irony is he is personally no fan of Europe, and a Brexiteer, but as always, he follows the will of the people. He wanted to stop the argument by obtaining a more informed and probably decisive vote.

 

His argument was nuanced and subtle and couldn't be fitted into a catchy soundbite, (unlike Boris's 'get Brexit done') but was misrepresented as fully fledged opposition to Brexit, which it decidedly wasn't.

 

Personally, l thought it was a good idea.

 

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13 hours ago, Anna B said:

No, Corbyn was a decent, honest politician who stood for election as leader not for riches or because of an enormous ego , but  because he recognised that the electorate was disillusioned and desperate for change, to the point where they were refusing to vote, after 40 years of Tory rule (including neo-Tory Tony Blair,) for fear of just more of the same no matter which party got in.

 

An interesting read from 2015 when Corbyn was added to the leadership competition, and what might happen if (God forbid) he wins:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/who-are-morons-who-nominated-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-contest-10406527.html

 

As for Anna saying "he follows the will of the people" - yeah, right.   Only the people who agree with him.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36647458

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56 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

An interesting read from 2015 when Corbyn was added to the leadership competition, and what might happen if (God forbid) he wins:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/who-are-morons-who-nominated-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-contest-10406527.html

 

As for Anna saying "he follows the will of the people" - yeah, right.   Only the people who agree with him.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36647458

No, the people who elected him leader, and a lot of those were ordinary people, not communists, left wing loonies, fanatics etc. Just ordinary people who wanted a real alternative to the Tories, and it became the biggest political party in Europe. Ever.

 

The fact that the party was split showed how many closet Tories were in the Labour party and still are.

 

If the election had been fair and square about politics and not hijacked by Brexit with a meaningless soundbite he could have won.

His followers, of which there are many, are still loyal to him and his ideals but now have no one to represent their views, which is surely wrong.

Edited by Anna B

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Either way, it's going to be hard for Labour to get elected again now when they have more or less told lifelong Labour voters such as my family that our views don't count and they know better.

We would never agree to a second vote on anything because we have an  electoral system which works on ONE vote and always has.

I cannot recall any General Election where we got the chance to vote again because someone didn't like the result.

We voted to leave Europe and all 3 parties said they would honour the result and apart from Johnson and a few Tories they all broke their promises.

That's why the last election was hijacked by Brexit and rightly so.

The resulting mess is the product of British politicians who cannot be trusted.

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8 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Either way, it's going to be hard for Labour to get elected again now when they have more or less told lifelong Labour voters such as my family that our views don't count and they know better.

We would never agree to a second vote on anything because we have an  electoral system which works on ONE vote and always has.

I cannot recall any General Election where we got the chance to vote again because someone didn't like the result.

 

We vote again every 5 years or so typically though for a new government. So you do get a chance to change your mind if you don't like the way things turned out..

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54 minutes ago, nightrider said:

We vote again every 5 years or so typically though for a new government. So you do get a chance to change your mind if you don't like the way things turned out..

Not so.

The result of the vote is put into place immediately and then lasts for 5 years and there is no opportunity to change your mind until the next General Election.

The politicians blocked the result of the referendum and it still hasn't been put into place yet.

Ask yourself when that referendum took place.

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29 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Not so.

The result of the vote is put into place immediately and then lasts for 5 years and there is no opportunity to change your mind until the next General Election.

The politicians blocked the result of the referendum and it still hasn't been put into place yet.

Ask yourself when that referendum took place.

what are you talking about? We leave on 31 December. Thats it, we are out. Done.  Once out we can have a referendum on rejoining if people support it (which I think they will once they see what  disaster we are in).

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24 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Not so.

The result of the vote is put into place immediately and then lasts for 5 years and there is no opportunity to change your mind until the next General Election.

The politicians blocked the result of the referendum and it still hasn't been put into place yet.

Ask yourself when that referendum took place.

Corbyn's position on how he wanted Brexit to turn out, renegotiate the Tory deal to be closer to the EU, was consistent with the referendum result. Don't forget, the referendum did not define what Brexit would look like and the Leave campaigns were assiduous about not defining it so people would project what they wanted onto it and be more likely to vote for it. A Norway style deal would have honoured the result of the referendum. There never was one true Brexit that everyone who voted leave supported, only that we no longer be members of the EU. Ultimately it was blocked by people wanting a different sort of Brexit from that negotiated - i.e. the ERG blocking May's deal.

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