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The Labour Party - Part 2

Vaati

People who get personal with any further attacks in the thread will be suspended. As will any individuals using wording like Smarmer instead of Starmer etc.

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9 minutes ago, West 77 said:

If PR was in force at the 2019 December General Election then the UK would stop have left the EU meaning leave voters would have been cheated out of their democratic choice.  PR gives to much power to the third and fourth largest parties meaning they can prevent or block the plans and policies of the largest parties. We saw what happened during the time of the rogue parliament.

Go back a step or two from the GE.

PR may have meant that an internal squabble of the Tory Party did not develop into a situation seized by the far right and Farage to create the Brexit mess that we have now,

 

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2 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Go back a step or two from the GE.

PR may have meant that an internal squabble of the Tory Party did not develop into a situation seized by the far right and Farage to create the Brexit mess that we have now,

 

Irrelevant.  Parliament overwhelmingly voted in favour of holding an in / out EU referendum,  It was not just a section of Tory MPs who supported holding the EU referendum.

 

There is no Brexit mess thanks to Boris getting a big majority at the 2019 December General Election.

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Every party has its internal factions heavily for / against EU membership. The one in power gets to have the discussion with the voters.

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The truth is before Tony Blair gained power with the Labour party it was the Labour party who were more anti EU than the Tory party.  It was the right thing for the UK to hold an EU referendum and allow the UK people to decide whether they wanted to remain or leave.  The UK are still the pioneers in World democracy thanks to blessing the people with a choice on EU membership which all the remaining EU governments are reluctant to do.

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2 hours ago, West 77 said:

 The UK are still the pioneers in World democracy thanks to blessing the people with a choice on EU membership which all the remaining EU governments are reluctant to do.

:)  :)

 

Some countries have many referendums, some even get over-turned. Britain was once a leading country, imposing its will on others, that had negative and posative effects.

Britain is not the country it once was, with Trump and Johnson, I feel the reputation of both countries have suffered.

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4 hours ago, West 77 said:

If PR was in force at the 2019 December General Election then the UK would still not have left the EU meaning leave voters would have been cheated out of their democratic choice. 

So your complaint against PR is you think the majority of people would have voted to stay in the EU. That says everything about your lack of respect for democracy.

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PR gives to much power to the third and fourth largest parties meaning they can prevent or block the plans and policies of the largest parties.

PR prevents a government supported only by a minority of people being able to ride roughshod over the views of the majority.

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We saw what happened during the time of the rogue parliament.

The only thing rogue in parliament at that time was governments twice illegally attempting to undermine our system of government.

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If we had PR, Nigel Farage would probably have been the UK's Brexit Minister and Deputy PM.

 

The only people who love PR are the ones who can't find enough supporters to get their ideas implemented. I'd say that's more to do with their usually self-serving and quite bonkers ideas than it is to do with the voting system.  They simply can't take the hint that their ideas are continually rejected because they are rubbish.

 

Careful what you wish for.

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3 hours ago, Tony said:

If we had PR, Nigel Farage would probably have been the UK's Brexit Minister and Deputy PM.

So if he was voted in, you wouldnt respect democracy? Maybe he would do a better job at being the Brexit Minster than Lord Frost?

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3 hours ago, altus said:

So your complaint against PR is you think the majority of people would have voted to stay in the EU. That says everything about your lack of respect for democracy.

 

We had an EU referendum where 52% of the electorate chose the option to leave the EU.  The  democratic choice to leave the EU was already decided before the 2019 December General Election.  It was the rogue parliament who didn't respect democracy and my point is if PR had been in place during the 2019 December General Election then Brexit wouldn't have happened because the Labour Party, the Lib Dems and the SNP would all have blocked the implementation of the democratic choice the British people made.  The truth is there is only one major party in Britain that truly respects democracy and that is the Tory party and that is the main reason they won an eighty seat majority at the 2019 December General Election.

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8 hours ago, West 77 said:

The truth is before Tony Blair gained power with the Labour party it was the Labour party who were more anti EU than the Tory party.

Mr Blair himself was a Leaver, prior to becoming Labour leader.

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1 hour ago, El Cid said:

So if he was voted in, you wouldnt respect democracy? Maybe he would do a better job at being the Brexit Minster than Lord Frost?

No. Maybe. 

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5 hours ago, Tony said:

If we had PR, Nigel Farage would probably have been the UK's Brexit Minister and Deputy PM.

Unlikely. If we'd had PR, the Tory and Labour governments wouldn't have got away with ignoring people's concerns about immigration for so long and we wouldn't have had brexit.

 

If MEPs were elected by FPTP rather than PR, how many seats do you think UKIP would have gained? The reality is they wouldn't have gained any and Tory and Labour governments would have just continued ignoring people's concerns about immigration.

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The only people who love PR are the ones who can't find enough supporters to get their ideas implemented. I'd say that's more to do with their usually self-serving and quite bonkers ideas than it is to do with the voting system.  They simply can't take the hint that their ideas are continually rejected because they are rubbish.

The only people? Conservative MPs back proportional representation, arguing First Past the Post “encourages conflict and aggression”.

 

Your attempts to dismiss people arguing for a fairer electoral system as just being sore losers is merely an attempt to avoid debating the problems with FPTP.

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