The Labour Party - Part 2

[Tony 10]

  

11 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

its like Paul Hardcastle did a labour remix of 19

 

 

 

Innit weird when Dawn Butler is the soothing voice of reason. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Tony

[The_DADDY 3,461]

5 hours ago, Tony said:

Lining up another half century on the sidelines

 

Had to wait right until the end for Dawn Butler to speak the truth.

Absolutely.. If only they realised how "special" they seem to normal folk. 

5 hours ago, sheffbag said:

its like Paul Hardcastle did a labour remix of 19

The comrade and crackpot edition. 

 

I'd buy it for a giggle. 

 

[El Cid 214]

1 hour ago, CaptainSwing said:

Yes, I think a lot of Labour supporters did want that, for similar reasons to why they want PR.  An alliance/pact with the SNP might have made sense too, though politically that was never going to happen.

Likewise there was no way that Swinson would ever have considered a pact with Labour in 2019 - or vice versa.  Ideologically the gulf was too wide, and of course she thought she was on to a winner with her hardcore Remain stance.

I believe that if the vote for the Government is less than 40%, they should bring in PR and re-run the election.

David Cameron wanted to include in the Tory general election manifesto a proposal to raise the threshold in trade union strike ballots, a threshhold for electing a Government is along those lines.

[Carbuncle 0]

6 minutes ago, West 77 said:

In the December 2019 General election the Tories got over 43% of the vote.  We saw what happened during the rogue parliament after Theresa May lost her majority.  PR in this country is a ludicrous suggestion.

Remember to buy washing powder. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. PR would be a good idea.

[El Cid 214]

24 minutes ago, West 77 said:

In the December 2019 General election the Tories got over 43% of the vote.  We saw what happened during the rogue parliament after Theresa May lost her majority.  PR in this country is a ludicrous suggestion.

The Conservatives got less than 40% in 2015, if its good enough for the unions, its good enough for Westminster.

[altus 537]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

In the December 2019 General election the Tories got over 43% of the vote.  We saw what happened during the rogue parliament after Theresa May lost her majority. 

Surely you mean the rogue governments that twice illegally attempted to undermine our system of government.

Quote

PR in this country is a ludicrous suggestion.

PR would have prevented many millions of people's concerns about immigration and other things from being ignored for decades by both Tory and Labour governments.

[RJRB 688]

36 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The only people wanting PR are the anti Tory / anti democratic mob who know there is no other political party who have a chance of replacing the Tories in government anytime soon a the ballot box.

To call PR undemocratic is another ridiculous statement.

FPTP suits the Tories well particularly after tinkering around with constituency boundaries.

[the_bloke 17]

If you want to know how smoothly PR works, pay attention to the current condition of German government. Three weeks after the election and still no government has been formed. Lots of back room deals going on, and the result will likely be a three way coalition of parties that will struggle to push any policy through from their manifesto without compromise.

 

It's democracy yes, but in a way that no one gets what they voted for.

[tinfoilhat 11]

4 hours ago, West 77 said:

The only people wanting PR are the anti Tory / anti democratic mob who know there is no other political party who have a chance of replacing the Tories in government anytime soon a the ballot box.

Antidemocratic? Utter nonsense. It's the total opposite.

[El Cid 214]

1 hour ago, the_bloke said:

If you want to know how smoothly PR works, pay attention to the current condition of German government. Three weeks after the election and still no government has been formed. Lots of back room deals going on, and the result will likely be a three way coalition of parties that will struggle to push any policy through from their manifesto without compromise.

 

It's democracy yes, but in a way that no one gets what they voted for.

Is three weeks a long time when it comes to forming a Government?

Germany has a strong economy and seems well run.

[Tony 10]

2 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Antidemocratic? Utter nonsense. It's the total opposite.

How so? As ably expressed above the current situation in Germany is a perfect example of why PR is a one way trip to poor democracy. 

 

In the UK, parties stand on manifestos and in government they impose their manifesto pledges, notwithstanding unexpected severe shocks. Coalitions invariably have to compromise and voters don't get what they voted for. Rather, an antidemocratic cabal cooks up a technocratic solution that year by year removes the link between voters and elected representatives and replaces it with ever-stronger links with industry / unions / whoever can afford to lobby hardest. 

 

FPTP is not perfect but the alternatives are worse.

 

The only people who love PR are the ones who can't find enough supporters to get theri ideas implemented. I'd say that's more to do with their usually self-serving and quite bonkers ideas than it is to do with the voting system

. They simply can't take the hint that their ideas are continually rejected because they are rubbish.

[L00b 441]

3 hours ago, the_bloke said:

If you want to know how smoothly PR works, pay attention to the current condition of German government. Three weeks after the election and still no government has been formed. Lots of back room deals going on, and the result will likely be a three way coalition of parties that will struggle to push any policy through from their manifesto without compromise.

 

It's democracy yes, but in a way that no one gets what they voted for.

Well, Germany has been just sooo poorly governed through decades of PR, really.

 

 Can’t imagine how their economy is so consistently strong, how people there are reasonably happy and well-educated, how the far right like AfD are sinking in polls. I’m completely befuddled. 
 

So, err, Johnson’s been in power nearly a year now, with a vast majority…

 

…are you getting what you voted for?

Edited October 11, 2021 by L00b