Tony 10 #1693 Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, sheffbag said: its like Paul Hardcastle did a labour remix of 19 Innit weird when Dawn Butler is the soothing voice of reason. Edited October 6, 2021 by Tony Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
The_DADDY 3,475 #1694 Posted October 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Tony said: Lining up another half century on the sidelines Had to wait right until the end for Dawn Butler to speak the truth. Absolutely.. If only they realised how "special" they seem to normal folk. 5 hours ago, sheffbag said: its like Paul Hardcastle did a labour remix of 19 The comrade and crackpot edition. I'd buy it for a giggle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
El Cid 220 #1695 Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, CaptainSwing said: Yes, I think a lot of Labour supporters did want that, for similar reasons to why they want PR. An alliance/pact with the SNP might have made sense too, though politically that was never going to happen. Likewise there was no way that Swinson would ever have considered a pact with Labour in 2019 - or vice versa. Ideologically the gulf was too wide, and of course she thought she was on to a winner with her hardcore Remain stance. I believe that if the vote for the Government is less than 40%, they should bring in PR and re-run the election. David Cameron wanted to include in the Tory general election manifesto a proposal to raise the threshold in trade union strike ballots, a threshhold for electing a Government is along those lines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Carbuncle 0 #1696 Posted October 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, West 77 said: In the December 2019 General election the Tories got over 43% of the vote. We saw what happened during the rogue parliament after Theresa May lost her majority. PR in this country is a ludicrous suggestion. Remember to buy washing powder. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. PR would be a good idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
El Cid 220 #1697 Posted October 10, 2021 24 minutes ago, West 77 said: In the December 2019 General election the Tories got over 43% of the vote. We saw what happened during the rogue parliament after Theresa May lost her majority. PR in this country is a ludicrous suggestion. The Conservatives got less than 40% in 2015, if its good enough for the unions, its good enough for Westminster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
altus 540 #1698 Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, West 77 said: In the December 2019 General election the Tories got over 43% of the vote. We saw what happened during the rogue parliament after Theresa May lost her majority. Surely you mean the rogue governments that twice illegally attempted to undermine our system of government. Quote PR in this country is a ludicrous suggestion. PR would have prevented many millions of people's concerns about immigration and other things from being ignored for decades by both Tory and Labour governments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RJRB 688 #1699 Posted October 11, 2021 36 minutes ago, West 77 said: The only people wanting PR are the anti Tory / anti democratic mob who know there is no other political party who have a chance of replacing the Tories in government anytime soon a the ballot box. To call PR undemocratic is another ridiculous statement. FPTP suits the Tories well particularly after tinkering around with constituency boundaries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
the_bloke 17 #1700 Posted October 11, 2021 If you want to know how smoothly PR works, pay attention to the current condition of German government. Three weeks after the election and still no government has been formed. Lots of back room deals going on, and the result will likely be a three way coalition of parties that will struggle to push any policy through from their manifesto without compromise. It's democracy yes, but in a way that no one gets what they voted for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat 11 #1701 Posted October 11, 2021 4 hours ago, West 77 said: The only people wanting PR are the anti Tory / anti democratic mob who know there is no other political party who have a chance of replacing the Tories in government anytime soon a the ballot box. Antidemocratic? Utter nonsense. It's the total opposite. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
El Cid 220 #1702 Posted October 11, 2021 1 hour ago, the_bloke said: If you want to know how smoothly PR works, pay attention to the current condition of German government. Three weeks after the election and still no government has been formed. Lots of back room deals going on, and the result will likely be a three way coalition of parties that will struggle to push any policy through from their manifesto without compromise. It's democracy yes, but in a way that no one gets what they voted for. Is three weeks a long time when it comes to forming a Government? Germany has a strong economy and seems well run. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Tony 10 #1703 Posted October 11, 2021 2 hours ago, tinfoilhat said: Antidemocratic? Utter nonsense. It's the total opposite. How so? As ably expressed above the current situation in Germany is a perfect example of why PR is a one way trip to poor democracy. In the UK, parties stand on manifestos and in government they impose their manifesto pledges, notwithstanding unexpected severe shocks. Coalitions invariably have to compromise and voters don't get what they voted for. Rather, an antidemocratic cabal cooks up a technocratic solution that year by year removes the link between voters and elected representatives and replaces it with ever-stronger links with industry / unions / whoever can afford to lobby hardest. FPTP is not perfect but the alternatives are worse. The only people who love PR are the ones who can't find enough supporters to get theri ideas implemented. I'd say that's more to do with their usually self-serving and quite bonkers ideas than it is to do with the voting system . They simply can't take the hint that their ideas are continually rejected because they are rubbish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b 441 #1704 Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, the_bloke said: If you want to know how smoothly PR works, pay attention to the current condition of German government. Three weeks after the election and still no government has been formed. Lots of back room deals going on, and the result will likely be a three way coalition of parties that will struggle to push any policy through from their manifesto without compromise. It's democracy yes, but in a way that no one gets what they voted for. Well, Germany has been just sooo poorly governed through decades of PR, really. Can’t imagine how their economy is so consistently strong, how people there are reasonably happy and well-educated, how the far right like AfD are sinking in polls. I’m completely befuddled. So, err, Johnson’s been in power nearly a year now, with a vast majority… …are you getting what you voted for? Edited October 11, 2021 by L00b Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...