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The Labour Party - Part 2

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

Inflation is how governments get rid of their debt. Covid could be a trillion quid.

 

Just saying.

Interesting going on what you’ve previously said about inflation.

 

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/search/?&q=Inflation&page=1&author=Tony&search_and_or=or

 

This is my favorite.

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/227085-2010-general-election-megathread/page/81/?tab=comments#comment-4173808

 

Edited by Mister Gee

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Guest sibon
54 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

The Guardian describes itself as 'liberal', which can cover a multitude of sins.  From your perspective it might look like it's centre-left, but your perspective has been coloured by the post-Thatcherite Newspeak, in which 'centre-left' means centre-right.

 

One columnist who could plausibly be described as centre-left is Will Hutton, who I often agree with.  Chakrabortty too probably.  But the vast majority of Guardian columnists are definitely right of centre - Freedland, Behr, Katy Balls, Rawnsley, Jenkins, d'Ancona (formerly), Cohen (at least some of the time) etc. etc.

The trouble with defining things on an arbitrary scale is that it all depends upon the individual’s starting point.

 

For most of the U.K. electorate, The Guardian is a left wing paper and the Sun is a right wing one.


It doesn’t matter a jot what Momentum think, as they aren’t going to affect the outcome of the next election. That’s just simple arithmetic.

 

Maybe, the message for Labour is that they need to realise that and set course accordingly 

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Guest makapaka
6 minutes ago, sibon said:

The trouble with defining things on an arbitrary scale is that it all depends upon the individual’s starting point.

 

For most of the U.K. electorate, The Guardian is a left wing paper and the Sun is a right wing one.


It doesn’t matter a jot what Momentum think, as they aren’t going to affect the outcome of the next election. That’s just simple arithmetic.

 

Maybe, the message for Labour is that they need to realise that and set course accordingly 

All about the playing field. Dan hodges has it right.

 

the tories can now play both halves.

 

Labour can only play one.

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Guest sibon
10 minutes ago, makapaka said:

All about the playing field. Dan hodges has it right.

 

the tories can now play both halves.

 

Labour can only play one.

I’m not certain that you are right.

 

The Tories are about to enter a different phase of government. Not necessarily one that will reflect well on them.

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Guest makapaka
27 minutes ago, sibon said:

I’m not certain that you are right.

 

The Tories are about to enter a different phase of government. Not necessarily one that will reflect well on them.

i wish - but they’ve sewn it up - very clever by the tories 

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13 hours ago, Mister Gee said:

Why is it your favourite @Mister Gee? It seems like a perfectly on-point comment in May 2010.

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49 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

But a not for profit independent company is not nationalisation. When a company is nationalised its taken into Government control.

Network Rail manages the national rail infrastructure. It will manage all other aspects of train travel too – from ticketing to timetabling. The government insists this is not re-nationalisation.

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10 hours ago, sibon said:

The trouble with defining things on an arbitrary scale is that it all depends upon the individual’s starting point.

 

For most of the U.K. electorate, The Guardian is a left wing paper and the Sun is a right wing one.


It doesn’t matter a jot what Momentum think, as they aren’t going to affect the outcome of the next election. That’s just simple arithmetic.

 

Maybe, the message for Labour is that they need to realise that and set course accordingly 

With regards to newspapers it's not a level playing field, it's about circulation, readership and demographics.

The readership of the Guardian for example is much smaller than the Sun, and the Sun is arguably read by more 'working class' people who might have traditionally voted Labour, but are affected by the right wing  influences in the paper to change their vote.

 

Most of the Red Top  newspapers are similarly placed. In effect, our governments are chosen by Rupert Murdoch and his ilk.   

Edited by Anna B

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3 minutes ago, Anna B said:

With regards to newspapers it's not a level playing field, it's about circulation, readership and demographics.

The readership of the Guardian for example is much smaller than the Sun, and the Sun is arguably read by more 'working class' people who might have traditionally voted Labour, but are affected by the right wing  influences in the paper to change their vote

Most of the Red Top  newspapers are similarly placed. Basically our governments are chosen by Rupert Murdoch and his ilk. 

The Sun is very right wing. I personally think the term working class should no longer be used, perhaps in the day it was read by the manufacturing sector, but that has declined. When we discuss class, we should now speak about whether someone is left/right wing economically and right/left wing socially. I am right/center wing economically, but left wing socially.

People are now wealthier than back in the day when people bought a daily newspaper, thanks to the minimum wage and tax credits, both Labour policies.

 

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10 minutes ago, Anna B said:

With regards to newspapers it's not a level playing field, it's about circulation, readership and demographics.

The readership of the Guardian for example is much smaller than the Sun, and the Sun is arguably read by more 'working class' people who might have traditionally voted Labour, but are affected by the right wing  influences in the paper to change their vote.

 

Most of the Red Top  newspapers are similarly placed. In effect, our governments are chosen by Rupert Murdoch and his ilk.   

At some point the penny might drop and you'll realise that it's not a "right wing conspiracy". You're just part of a teeny tiny minority of Fellow Travellers with bad ideas that most people see through.

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25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

With regards to newspapers it's not a level playing field, it's about circulation, readership and demographics.

The readership of the Guardian for example is much smaller than the Sun  

The online version of the Guardian is usually the top or second place most visited newspaper website in the UK, swapping places at the top with the Mail. The Sun online is a long way down the list. More people read the Guardian than the Sun.

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Guest sibon
24 minutes ago, Anna B said:

With regards to newspapers it's not a level playing field, it's about circulation, readership and demographics.

The readership of the Guardian for example is much smaller than the Sun, and the Sun is arguably read by more 'working class' people who might have traditionally voted Labour, but are affected by the right wing  influences in the paper to change their vote.

 

Most of the Red Top  newspapers are similarly placed. In effect, our governments are chosen by Rupert Murdoch and his ilk.   

I agree about the general bias of the printed media, but I don’t agree that Murdoch will choose the next PM.


In general, I think that Newspapers follow public opinion, rather than lead it. Their priority is to sell papers, you don’t do that if your customers don’t agree with you.

 

It isn’t good enough for Labour to blame the messenger. They need to get the message right.

 

That’s where Corbyn failed. His message was wrong. The messengers merely amplified his many shortcomings.

 

So far, Starmer appears to be devoid of a message. Let’s hope that changes quickly 

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