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The Labour Party - Part 2

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2 hours ago, RJRB said:

Regrettably I am finding Starmer a disappointment already.

 

A disappointment compared to who?

A disappointment compared to Boris?

Are you happy that he will be more of a centrist, a logical person, as opposed to a liar.

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On 04/03/2021 at 01:39, the_bloke said:

I'm sure that had a huge impact. The well co-ordinated 2019 election twitter/facebook/instagram/web/viral campaigning by thousands of paid and unpaid Labour staff and supporters failed to motivate the millions of people who are glued to social media every minute of the day, and in the end those millions were swayed by the opinions of the editorial team of the Daily Mail, the newspaper of OAPs.

 

I'm being sarcastic by the way.

 

The rising irrelevance and reduction in power of the printed press over the last 10 years is only matched by the continuing irrelevance and reduction of popularity of Labour amongst the electorate. The moaning about the press being the enemy is hollow when research shows fewer and fewer people watch the news on TV or buy a newspaper yet the cries of the press being 'the enemy' are just as loud now as when Kinnock blamed the press when he resigned.

 

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0027/157914/uk-news-consumption-2019-report.pdf

So the likes of the Mail and the Sun aren't available online and linked to on social media.............. or their headlines aren't in your face on supermarket newsstands..................

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1 hour ago, El Cid said:

A disappointment compared to who?

A disappointment compared to Boris?

Are you happy that he will be more of a centrist, a logical person, as opposed to a liar.

A disappointment as a leader of the opposition  who should make better use of the ammunition at his disposal to cut through the lies and bluster of Johnson and his cabinet.

I draw no comparison with Johnson and my leanings are certainly slightly left of centre.

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14 hours ago, RJRB said:

Regrettably I am finding Starmer a disappointment already.

On a number of subjects he criticises the government,but is unable or unwilling to offer credible alternatives.

Isn't that what the opposition have always done?  

 

He's not perfect by any means and may not be the last Labour leader before they gain power again, but its a big improvement. 

 

His biggest Achilles heel is with the hard left Labour supporters who won't get behind him,  For years we were told to get behind Corbyn.  Now the hypocrites stab Starmer in the back when they can.

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On 11/03/2021 at 10:58, alchresearch said:

Isn't that what the opposition have always done?  

 

He's not perfect by any means and may not be the last Labour leader before they gain power again, but its a big improvement. 

 

His biggest Achilles heel is with the hard left Labour supporters who won't get behind him,  For years we were told to get behind Corbyn.  Now the hypocrites stab Starmer in the back when they can.

Where is the big improvement because I haven't noticed one.

The hard left will never get behind him because he is a Blairite and like Blair, wants to carry  out Tory policies when we already have a Tory party.

Until he explains where he differs from the Tories, he will not get the backing.

His shadow chancellor would probably make a far better leader than him.

Edited by Organgrinder

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12 hours ago, Longcol said:

So the likes of the Mail and the Sun aren't available online and linked to on social media.............. or their headlines aren't in your face on supermarket newsstands..................

You do know that the biggest online readership of any newspaper in the UK is the Guardian?

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8 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Until he explains where he differs from the Tories, he will not get the backing.

 

He has been an MP for six years, surely we know he is a moderate, but policies will only be announced before the next election.

In 2019 there was a big rush for the partys  announce their manifestos because they were not known before that.

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On 11/03/2021 at 20:17, El Cid said:

He has been an MP for six years, surely we know he is a moderate, but policies will only be announced before the next election.

In 2019 there was a big rush for the partys  announce their manifestos because they were not known before that.

Being known simply as a moderate is not enough. We have had this discussion before.

Very many are dissapointed with Starmer already, including some of his own MP's,  so if he doesn't tell people what he stands for now, he may never get the chance because he will not last that long.

I am dissapointed with Labour altogether with their failure to speak out on anything except to critiscise Boris without telling us their alternative plans.

The only thing they have announced is that they are going to look after the nurses. That's good but they must offer something more than that.

They need some new ideas and  they need to show some fire as though they beleive in what they are saying.

They can't expect people to bin Boris off and support the other side if they don't know what's on offer.

At least Corbyn did that and made it clear he was going to take public ownership of the railways etc but no one knows what Starmer wants to do.

If everything is going to be the same as they are whilst the Tories are running the country then Why change?

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6 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

I am dissapointed with Labour altogether with their failure to speak out on anything except to critiscise Boris without telling us their alternative plans.

 

It is difficult to put forward an alternative. Should we test more, the test n trace is already costing billions; should we lockdown more, bussinesses need to work and earn money; should shcools reopen because children are suffering, that will spread COVID and the teachers wont be happy; should we compansate people more, with Government already spending billions.

 

Surely all of this has been said in Parliament, have you not seen it, has it not been reported?

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2 hours ago, El Cid said:

It is difficult to put forward an alternative. Should we test more, the test n trace is already costing billions; should we lockdown more, bussinesses need to work and earn money; should shcools reopen because children are suffering, that will spread COVID and the teachers wont be happy; should we compansate people more, with Government already spending billions.

 

Surely all of this has been said in Parliament, have you not seen it, has it not been reported?

You seem to be specifically talking about Covid.

I am not - I am talking about a party in opposition now but who wants to form the next government.

There is Covid to deal with but many other problems too, with climate change, housing stock, employment, trade, Europe, Northern Ireland, world affairs,

Yes, I HAVE seen what's said in Parliament and I AM aware of what gets reported and prefer not to be asked silly questions like that.

 

In all the fields that I have mentioned, I have not seen or heard a single Labour statement on any one of those.

Many Labour supporters are so enamoured that they would vote for Mr Bean as Labour leader but, if Labour want to regain my vote, they will have to come up with some real pollcies

and show that they have the ideas and  the leadership to implement them.

Further sitting on the fence and making a lot of bluster will not persuade people like me and neither will talking down.

I understand that this is a very difficult time for Governments and would-be Governments but that's why Labour need to show that they will not do the same, otherwise, there is no point voting for them.

Unless Labour spells out alternative policies, they are dead.

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43 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

You seem to be specifically talking about Covid.

I am not - I am talking about a party in opposition now but who wants to form the next government.

There is Covid to deal with but many other problems too, with climate change, housing stock, employment, trade, Europe, Northern Ireland, world affairs,

Yes, I HAVE seen what's said in Parliament and I AM aware of what gets reported and prefer not to be asked silly questions like that.

 

In all the fields that I have mentioned, I have not seen or heard a single Labour statement on any one of those.

Many Labour supporters are so enamoured that they would vote for Mr Bean as Labour leader but, if Labour want to regain my vote, they will have to come up with some real pollcies

and show that they have the ideas and  the leadership to implement them.

Further sitting on the fence and making a lot of bluster will not persuade people like me and neither will talking down.

I understand that this is a very difficult time for Governments and would-be Governments but that's why Labour need to show that they will not do the same, otherwise, there is no point voting for them.

Unless Labour spells out alternative policies, they are dead.

They've been dead for 50 years. Only time the public accepted them was when Blair was in charge and the labour faithful on here discount him as "not Labour"

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I wish Pettytom was still here and not banned, he was a big supporter of Starmer, i would love to hear his views on how poor labour are doing with his man in charge , the Starmer pledges that he directed to are mostly broken, from what i see there is very little between Labour and Tories at the moment

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