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The Labour Party - Part 2

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2 minutes ago, carosio said:

If Starmer wins the next election, he will stand at the lectern and declare that "democracy has spoken".

I'm sure he will also say that if he doesn't win the next election

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3 hours ago, carosio said:

If Starmer wins the next election, he will stand at the lectern and declare that "democracy has spoken".

Starmer doesnt have a cat in hells chance of getting elected, he is still blaming Corbyn for his own poor showing in the polls, i also found it quite telling when he was asked whether Hancock should resign over breaking the law on contracts, the snivelling creep declared that it is not what the people want, yes it blooming well is, if Hancock is giving out contracts to his mates and breaking the law, he should be held accountable

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He's trying to lead a political party while holding no opinions. Novel, but doomed to failure I suspect.

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37 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

Starmer doesnt have a cat in hells chance of getting elected, he is still blaming Corbyn for his own poor showing in the polls, i also found it quite telling when he was asked whether Hancock should resign over breaking the law on contracts, the snivelling creep declared that it is not what the people want, yes it blooming well is, if Hancock is giving out contracts to his mates and breaking the law, he should be held accountable

Better to wait for the enquiry and then Hancock will resign, can we judge before the enquiry?

2 minutes ago, Delbow said:

He's trying to lead a political party while holding no opinions. Novel, but doomed to failure I suspect.

That didnt help Corbyn though.

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5 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Better to wait for the enquiry and then Hancock will resign, can we judge before the enquiry?

They will drag any inquiry well into the next parliament. Hancock will have a nice non-exec directorship with a private health company by then.

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Oooh good! All these posters mysteriously conspicuous by their absence from the Conservative Party thread, suddenly very animated on the Labour Party thread. Now there's a novelty! :nod:

13 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

A party with no beliefs and no policies, that they are willing to talk about and simply claim that they want to make the poor better off without explaining how they will do that and who is going to pay.

As they still believe in privatisation and all the policies which Blair & Brown followed, there is no point voting for them because they just took Margaret Thatchers policies when they got into power.

Leaves people wondering about the difference in their policies and the Tories. One thing to be sure of (because they told everyone not to talk about it) is that they want to get much closer to Europe again, whatever the cost.

I know, 'barstewards' aren't they? How dare they even suggest that poorest workers such as care workers, supermarket  staff and transport workers who sat with their feet up through the pandemic, while the poor chief executives of Britain's richest companies selflessly had their shoulders to the wheel, risking their own health and safety for little reward. So glad that the Conservative Party are sticking up for them. Let's face it, they need every bit of support from Government.

 

10 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Despite the Tory majority, it does matter what Labour says,  if only to show whether they are worth of our vote at the next election.

This doesn't mean that they can simply rubbish everything that Boris does (which is what's happening now) but they must explain their alternative policy so that we can compare.

If they don't have an alternative policy to any they oppose, they will not be worthy of our votes.

Why does it matter to you what Labour says? You've already decided you don't like it. 

Labour doesn't rubbish everything that Boris does. Labour have been more than supportive of Johnson in the pandemic, even when De Pfeffel doesn't deserve support, they've given it. What do you want Labour to do? Bow and scrape at every opportunity?

In fact many members of his own backbenchers are rubbishing Johnson more than the Labour Party are!

 

So Organgriner, what do you think about the policies of the Conservative Government which has led to Britain having one of the worst death rates in the world from COVID-19, and the pandemic having an impact that's resulted in the UK having the GDP growth in Europe?

Edited by Mister M

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1 hour ago, Mister M said:

Oooh good! All these posters mysteriously conspicuous by their absence from the Conservative Party thread, suddenly very animated on the Labour Party thread. Now there's a novelty! :nod:

I know, 'barstewards' aren't they? How dare they even suggest that poorest workers such as care workers, supermarket  staff and transport workers who sat with their feet up through the pandemic, while the poor chief executives of Britain's richest companies selflessly had their shoulders to the wheel, risking their own health and safety for little reward. So glad that the Conservative Party are sticking up for them. Let's face it, they need every bit of support from Government.

You have not understood my post - I fully understand that there are many poor and deserving people who deserve better from our governments of ALL shades.

I am saying that Labour pay lip service to this ideal but refuse to tell us exactly how they are going to achieve this.  I was a Labour voter for almost 60 years and still believe in the ideals of the original Labour party.

Blair & Brown started their slide into Tory policies and continued the mass privatisation  program. I believe that Corbyn would have stopped that but he never got the chance.

Starmer is a Blairite and will do nothing for the poor. He doesn't have a single idea of his own or if he does, he refuse to say what they are.  The Bonds idea had been suggested well before he latched onto it.

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

 

Why does it matter to you what Labour says? You've already decided you don't like it. 

Labour doesn't rubbish everything that Boris does. Labour have been more than supportive of Johnson in the pandemic, even when De Pfeffel doesn't deserve support, they've given it. What do you want Labour to do? Bow and scrape at every opportunity?

In fact many members of his own backbenchers are rubbishing Johnson more than the Labour Party are!

 

So Organgriner, what do you think about the policies of the Conservative Government which has led to Britain having one of the worst death rates in the world from COVID-19, and the pandemic having an impact that's resulted in the UK having the GDP growth in Europe?

It matters to everyone what Labour says unless we want to turn into a one party state but it also matters that they not only say the right things but DO THEM.

As for the policies of the Conservative Government, my opinion is that they have made many mistakes and should be held to account when the Inquiry into their policies takes place.

You might remember though, that Starmer was the one who started all the pushing to  come out of the first lockdown too early.

The Tories were voted in with a massive majority becasue they listened to the voters about Brexit when Labour tried every tactic to stop it so Boris at least listens.

Starmer hasn't supported Boris at all - he has simply not gone against him and told his MP's to abstain when they had the chance to vote against him.

In case you hadn't noticed, the latest poll  puts Boris massively in front of Starmer and Labour has no chance of winning an election with Starmer as leader and until they stop sitting on the fence.

I am no Tory lover but will not vote for Labour until I hear some real costed policies which prove their commitment to helping the poor. They have conned us long enough.

I want Gas, Electricity, Water, Railways and Royal Mail back in public ownership. I know Boris won't do that but neither will Starmer and, at this point, we still don't know what Starmer WILL do.

 

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9 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

You might remember though, that Starmer was the one who started all the pushing to  come out of the first lockdown too early

 

As most would vote to come out of this lockdown, its the failure of the test and trace which meant COVID came back.

If you dont like/vote for Starmer, you will get the Tories again.

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1 hour ago, El Cid said:

As most would vote to come out of this lockdown, its the failure of the test and trace which meant COVID came back.

If you dont like/vote for Starmer, you will get the Tories again.

The test and trace program was an unmitigated disaster from the start but, whether people admit it or not, Covid only came back because so many people will not follow the rules and will do so again.

If you get Covid, you have been too close to someone who has it and have not worn a mask or washed your hands after touching objects that they have touched.

Anyone who fully follows all the rules (not just some of them) is almost certain not to catch Covid

I will repeat that I am not a Tory lover but the government are not responsible for the spread of Covid  -  careless people are,  and that would still happen under a Starmer / Labour Government too.

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This is not to become another thread about the pandemic.

 

Thank you.

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On 27/02/2021 at 12:50, Organgrinder said:

Despite the Tory majority, it does matter what Labour says,  if only to show whether they are worth of our vote at the next election.

This doesn't mean that they can simply rubbish everything that Boris does (which is what's happening now) but they must explain their alternative policy so that we can compare.

If they don't have an alternative policy to any they oppose, they will not be worthy of our votes.

Part of the problem, I believe, is that the news etc has been totally dominated by first Brexit, and now Covid, neither of which are strictly party political issues, but have allowed the Tories, the party in power, to dominate, adopting Labour policies as their own (but of course giving Labour no credit) and leaving Labour between a rock and a hard place.

 

Currently very little interest is being focused on the underpinning issues of Tory Austerity, corruption and the damage being done to everyday life.

 

Just as the Tories had no qualms about running a totally deceitful campaign to pin the 2008 World banking crisis squarely on the Labour party, they will undoubtedly use the Covid crisis as an excuse for the upcoming continuance of their Austerity policy and aim to roll back welfare and the state when it suits them, but increase it when it comes to 'keeping us safe from covid,' with increased surveillance etc.  

Edited by Anna B

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3 hours ago, El Cid said:

If you dont like/vote for Starmer, you will get the Tories again.

And there lies the problem. Unless he can come up with something the masses will vote for then a Labour government is not on the cards. The days of being part of, or being a member of any political party are numbered. Many voters today are like me, floating voters who are not aligned to any one party and vote how they feel on the day as shown by Brexit and the last GE.

 

54 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Part of the problem, I believe, is that the news etc has been totally dominated by first Brexit, and now Covid, neither of which are strictly party political issues, but have allowed the Tories, the party in power, to dominate, adopting Labour policies as their own (but of course giving Labour no credit) and leaving Labour between a rock and a hard place.

I think Brexit was a party political issue but one the opposition political parties did not want to accept because they were going against the majority and knew what would happen if they did so dumbed it down. The Lib/Dems were a prime example of what happens when you do go against the flow.

 

Governments of the past have taken policies from other parties and given no credit and Labour did it with Blair government.

 

54 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Currently very little interest is being focused on the underpinning issues of Tory Austerity, corruption and the damage being done to everyday life.

Its austerity and would still have happened under a Labour government as Labour had no answer to it either. It still happened in the EU despite having a predominantly Social Democratic makeup and it happened elsewhere around the globe.

 

54 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Just as the Tories had no qualms about running a totally deceitful campaign to pin the 2008 World banking crisis squarely on the Labour party, they will undoubtedly use the Covid crisis as an excuse for the upcoming continuance of their Austerity policy and aim to roll back welfare and the state when it suits them, but increase it when it comes to 'keeping us safe from covid,' with increased surveillance etc.  

I think it's a given that austerity is here for some time to come, and as already said it not just the UK suffering from it either. As for increased surveillance.... After Labour took us into an unnecessary war they introduce very draconian anti-terrorism laws which were also used for non terrorist offences. They introduce a DNA database with the idea that everybody would be on it and not just criminals, and also tried to introduce a compulsory ID scheme for all.

 

At least for now there is one positive from wearing facemasks, facial recognition cameras now wont work and its even legal to wear them.

 

So much for this.....

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51237665 

 

 

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