The Labour Party - Part 2

[Mister M 1,609]

49 minutes ago, melthebell said:

Theres a little thing called a pandemic happening at the moment, i dont think pandering to little factions in the party is and should be at the top of the list of things to do at the moment.

Funny thing is, Starmer said the Christmas plans should have more restrictions and Boris slagged him off for wanting to cancel Christmas, a few days later Boris all but cancels Christmas. who was in the right?

Don't underestimate the desire of some on the left to ignore the most incompetent Tory government in living memory, in order to inflate Corbyn's ego, and elevate him to sainthood / martyr status.

 

[Pettytom 1]

11 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Of course it was a Socialist party; put together specifically with the intention of supporting the working man, who. up until that point, had no representation. This to the ire of the ruling class, who massively resented having their dominance threatened. Socialism was indeed rising all over Europe and beyond, deposing several Royal houses. However Britain, unlike some other countries, has always espoused 'responsible Capitalism,' which generally benefitted all, through a 'trickle down' effect. 

 

Unfortunately people don't seem to realise that the Tory party is now moving inexorably towards the far right.  We no longer have responsible Capitalism which benefits all, but neo-liberalism which mainly benefits only the top 1% which is why we see an ever widening gap between rich and poor, with multi-millionaires on the one hand, and a growing need for food banks etc at the other. The people have also failed to notice that much that they have cherished, (to the point of taking it for granted,) like the NHS, free education, regular well paid employment and home ownership are being systematically dismantled and disappearing fast.

 

These rights were hard won by the Labour party over many years, but we are being conned with meally mouthed words and bare faced lies into supporting the very people who are hell bent on getting rid of them. Namely the Tories. Sadly, the people are slow to grasp the bigger picture and won't realise what's happening and what they have lost until it's too late. That is why we need a proper Socialist Labour party, working on behalf of the people, not another branch of the Conservartives, in everything but name.     

The Labour Party membership card states that it is a “Democratic Socialist Party”

 

Which is very different to “a Socialist Party”.

 

If you want one of those, they do exist. Maybe you and Dean should seek one out.

1 minute ago, Mister M said:

Don't underestimate the desire of some on the left to ignore the most incompetent Tory government in living memory, in order to inflate Corbyn's ego, and elevate him to sainthood / martyr status.

 

Corbyn isn’t even a member of the PLP any more. Until he does as he’s been asked, he has no prospect of returning. 
 

So his martyr status is assured, but his influence has gone. Thankfully 

[banjodeano 31]

8 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

The Labour Party membership card states that it is a “Democratic Socialist Party”

 

Which is very different to “a Socialist Party”.

 

If you want one of those, they do exist. Maybe you and Dean should seek one out.

Corbyn isn’t even a member of the PLP any more. Until he does as he’s been asked, he has no prospect of returning. 
 

So his martyr status is assured, but his influence has gone. Thankfully 

The Labour Party membership card states that it is a “Democratic Socialist Party”

Which is very different to “a Socialist Party”.

 

Please explain what the difference is.....?

 does Starmer not believe in Democracy? Corbyn was democratically elected, and Starmer was part of the coup, ?????.....

18 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

The Labour Party membership card states that it is a “Democratic Socialist Party”

 

Which is very different to “a Socialist Party”.

 

If you want one of those, they do exist. Maybe you and Dean should seek one out.

Corbyn isn’t even a member of the PLP any more. Until he does as he’s been asked, he has no prospect of returning. 
 

So his martyr status is assured, but his influence has gone. Thankfully 

yup, that is because Starmer went against the NEC and overruled them,  which is against the parties own rules....he makes it up as he goes along

[Pettytom 1]

26 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

The Labour Party membership card states that it is a “Democratic Socialist Party”

Which is very different to “a Socialist Party”.

 

Please explain what the difference is.....?

 does Starmer not believe in Democracy? Corbyn was democratically elected, and Starmer was part of the coup, ?????.....

yup, that is because Starmer went against the NEC and overruled them,  which is against the parties own rules....he makes it up as he goes along

The NEC don’t get to decide who gets the Labour whip. There is no rule breaking going on. You need to brush up on party procedure before making such wild claims.
 

Corbyn could easily sort this out, but he’s not willing to behave reasonably. That’s why he’s suspended from the PLP. 

As for your other question, I’m not willing to do your GCSE politics exam for you, so you’ll have to Google a few definitions of Democratic Socialism for yourself.

[Anna B 1,401]

45 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

The Labour Party membership card states that it is a “Democratic Socialist Party”

 

Which is very different to “a Socialist Party”.

 

If you want one of those, they do exist. Maybe you and Dean should seek one out.

Corbyn isn’t even a member of the PLP any more. Until he does as he’s been asked, he has no prospect of returning. 
 

So his martyr status is assured, but his influence has gone. Thankfully 

That's what I meant by 'responsible capitalism' which has always been a tenet of the Labour party, and under Corbyn.

And that's what we certainly no longer have with the Conservatives. Nor with Blairite/Starmer Labour. 

 

In their world it's all dog eat dog, win by any means, winner takes all and who cares about the consequences? Of course you have to be on the winning side for that to work, otherwise you're in big trouble. I would say that after years of irresponsible capitalism under the Conservatives/Blairites, and, unless you're one of the few winners, we are now all in big trouble. 

[Pettytom 1]

12 minutes ago, Anna B said:

That's what I meant by 'responsible capitalism' which has always been a tenet of the Labour party, and under Corbyn.

And that's what we certainly no longer have with the Conservatives. Nor with Blairite/Starmer Labour. 

 

In their world it's all dog eat dog, win by any means, winner takes all and who cares about the consequences? Of course you have to be on the winning side for that to work, otherwise you're in big trouble. I would say that after years of irresponsible capitalism under the Conservatives/Blairites, and, unless you're one of the few winners, we are now all in big trouble. 

There are a lot of suppositions in there. 
 

What makes you think that Starmer is Blairite?

 

Or that Blairism is necessarily  a bad thing?

Edited December 20, 2020 by Pettytom

[andyofborg 11]

12 hours ago, banjodeano said:

Firstly i would like him to unite the party, you remember that was one of his pledges?? thats what got him elected, by promising to unite the party??

He turned out to be a liar....but hey, he wears a smart suit and it fools most people

but isn't your idea of unity that everyone follow St Jeremy and you refuse to recognise that in order to suceed the labour party needs to be a broad church.

 

you still don't want to face up to the fact that your views are on the edge of what most centre left voters will stomach and the views of those who surrounded Mr Corbyn are far lefter than that. 

 

11 hours ago, Pettytom said:

 

If you want one of those, they do exist. Maybe you and Dean should seek one out.

 

i haven't been into the city centre for a bit but they used to hang out on fargate every saturday collecting signatures for petitions which as far as I can tell over the last 40 years have never seemed to achieve a great deal. 

10 hours ago, Pettytom said:

There are a lot of suppositions in there. 
 

What makes you think that Starmer is Blairite?

 

Or that Blairism is necessarily  a bad thing?

it produced the most successful labour government ever whereas banjos style of labour produced it's biggest loss. 

 

you would think he'd take the hint,

[banjodeano 31]

9 hours ago, Pettytom said:

The NEC don’t get to decide who gets the Labour whip. There is no rule breaking going on. You need to brush up on party procedure before making such wild claims.
 

Corbyn could easily sort this out, but he’s not willing to behave reasonably. That’s why he’s suspended from the PLP. 

As for your other question, I’m not willing to do your GCSE politics exam for you, so you’ll have to Google a few definitions of Democratic Socialism for yourself.

I think you will find that you are incorrect...

This discrimination lawyer thinks the party may not have only broken the rules but may have actually broken the law, i think he may know a little more than you Tom...

https://novaramedia.com/2020/11/26/im-a-discrimination-lawyer-the-labour-party-has-probably-broken-the-law-by-removing-the-whip-from-jeremy-corbyn/

[andyofborg 11]

here you go banjo, here's a policy 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/19/keir-starmer-to-promise-wave-of-devolution-under-labour-government

 

quite a good one actually

[banjodeano 31]

2 hours ago, andyofborg said:

but isn't your idea of unity that everyone follow St Jeremy and you refuse to recognise that in order to suceed the labour party needs to be a broad church.

 

you still don't want to face up to the fact that your views are on the edge of what most centre left voters will stomach and the views of those who surrounded Mr Corbyn are far lefter than that. 

no not at all, where have i stated that? i have stated that the Blairites have never given Corbyn a chance,  and if they wasnt prepared to give Corbyn a chance and continually undermine the party they should leave to form their own party (like a few of them tried)

Talking about unity, it appears starmer has no intention of uniting the party, which was one of his pledges that he has now broken

 

10 hours ago, Pettytom said:

There are a lot of suppositions in there. 
 

What makes you think that Starmer is Blairite?

 

Or that Blairism is necessarily  a bad thing?

wow...just wow,

didnt he take us into an illegal war that cost the lives of over half a million people?

[Pettytom 1]

4 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

wow...just wow,

didnt he take us into an illegal war that cost the lives of over half a million people?

He did.

 

I resigned my party membership over that.

 

He did lots of excellent things too.

 

Did you spot the “ necessarily “ in my post?

[banjodeano 31]

1 minute ago, Pettytom said:

He did.

 

I resigned my party membership over that.

 

He did lots of excellent things too.

 

Did you spot the “ necessarily “ in my post?

Tom, you cant cherry pic the best bits unfortunately,