Judges Rule Shamima Begum Should Be Allowed Back In The Uk

[L00b 441]

12 minutes ago, nightrider said:

Interesting. If true she is a citizen of Bangladesh. We still won't be able to deport her there though because presumably they won't accept her into the country?

If it is established that she is a Bengladeshi national, Bengladesh would have no choice but to accept her. What they do with her afterwards, however, would be at their initiative (and legal due process).

 

The Supreme Court case notwithstanding, the future burning legal question is, considering she is 19 now, what happens if she turns 21 before being deported, and automatically loses that Bengladeshi nationality at that time, under these same provisions which (allegedly) automatically make her a Bengladeshi national now?

 

Because she'd be stateless then.

[the_bloke 17]

2 minutes ago, L00b said:

If it is established that she is a Bengladeshi national, Bengladesh would have no choice but to accept her. What they do with her afterwards, however, would be at their initiative (and legal due process).

 

The Supreme Court case notwithstanding, the future burning legal question is, considering she is 19 now, what happens if she turns 21 before being deported, and automatically loses that Bengladeshi nationality at that time, under these same provisions which (allegedly) automatically make her a Bengladeshi national now?

 

Because she'd be stateless then.

Presumably that's one of the bonuses for her legal team by them fighting for a trial on UK soil. Once she is in the country, it's harder to get her out.

 

It's another Abu Hamza deportation circus again.

[Tony 10]

11 minutes ago, L00b said:

Aside from membership of ISIL (assuming that was 'in the UK', and so a domestic criminal offence to which your point is relevant), what other crime(s) did she commit in the UK?

 

Edit: let's have an answer, then we can start talking about the proportionality of the government's sentence-without-due-process-for-PR-effect.

Here is your answer.

 

Her(alleged)  crimes in Syria are crimes in the UK and she can be tried in either place. She could also be tried in a third place if the relevant laws apply. 

 

I am perfectly happy for Begum to be tried as a criminal in-situ by the local authorities in Syria. I am also content for the UK authorities to assist local authorities to try her in-situ. I am also satisfied for her to be brought to the UK to be tried for her crimes if that is what the courts ultimately decide. I don't think i missed anything did I? 

 

If you insist on hearing my preference it would be for the local authorities in Syria to try her because that is the community who suffered the crimes that she and her compatriots 

 

Generally, I believe that it is  patronising, and probably quite racist for Brits to try to  tell others how to run their country as if we know better. I also believe that we should extend our own compassion as a nation and help convince the local authorities reach a verdict that is implemented with the compassion that we would try to impose, but that's ultimately up to them at any given moment in time. 

 

You mentioned due process. Due process is exactly what is happening and Begum hasn't been subject to summary justice regardless of you might think of the PR effect. The UK government removed her citizenship in line with Attorney General advice at the time. If courts subsequently determine something different that will only demonstrate due process and confirm constitutional separation of state and court powers. Proportionality has nothing to do with it, that may / may not be merely your personal opinion. 

 

The matters of grooming, age and the like will be factors in a trial, not factors in bringing her to trial. She was old enough to have criminal responsibility long before she committed the crimes discussed and she can be tried for them in a court with a jury. What will be interesting is to learn during a hearing will be her path to radicalisation - through her father primarily if what I have read in the past is correct. A trial in Syria might not be so concerned with nuances but such is the outcome of decisions she and her family took.

 

 

Here's looking forward to your similar thoughts being outlined. 

[frigate 10]

This young woman is demanding to be saved from the the consequences of her actions by the very people against whom those actions were directed. Her ruthless manipulation of the democracy she despises is itself despicable;  but far more disturbing is the willingness of that democracy’s representatives to be thus manipulated.

 

And who is paying for all this? Lawyers, High Court appeals etc do not come for free!

 

 

 

The safety of the many, outweigh the rights of a few.

Edited July 17, 2020 by nikki-red

[Vaati 11]

The bickering and "prove it" posts can cease.  Any further posts will result in accounts being suspended.

[melthebell 863]

Personally I prefer her to be tried and imprisoned here, it's far from safe in that region. Far too easy  for people to be freed, disappear and restart attacks on us and our interests etc

[Pyrotequila 402]

Even if she does make it back to the UK and is tried and doesn't get imprisoned, she will need life long police protection, because people will not stand for it.

Regardless of where she goes, the womans life will be horrible.

[PRESLEY 1,228]

9 minutes ago, Pyrotequila said:

Even if she does make it back to the UK and is tried and doesn't get imprisoned, she will need life long police protection, because people will not stand for it.

Regardless of where she goes, the womans life will be horrible.

I would have thought Terrorism  charges or probably a charge of Treason, not sure about that one, tbf, would carry a definate term of imprisonment,  

[Resident 1,185]

https://news.sky.com/story/shamima-begum-is-bride-should-not-be-allowed-to-return-to-the-uk-to-fight-citizenship-decision-court-rules-12229270

Supreme Court rules Begum should not be allowed to return to the UK.

Good decision IMO. 

[tinfoilhat 11]

Thin end of a big wedge.

[hauxwell 243]

I’m pleased she has lost her appeal.   What happens now, will she have to fight her citizenship case in Syria?

 

 

[altus 540]

24 minutes ago, hauxwell said:

I’m pleased she has lost her appeal.   What happens now, will she have to fight her citizenship case in Syria?

From Syria, not in Syria. We aren't going to ship a British court over there.