The Conservative Party - Part Two.

[Mister M 1,609]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

Perhaps there are some rolls of Lord Irvine's wallpaper left over from 1998 they could use. 

Good idea! Email Johnson with your suggestion

[26b-6 16]

18 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

I believe Boris only won because Labour did their best to scupper Brexit.

I voted Labour for almost all of my life but will still not back them until they apologise and get rid of Starmer,  who was the chief architect of this resistance to democracy..

Your claims seem to infer that northerners are racist and almost all the people I know are certainly not.

Many were, and still are, against more immigrants simply because we don't have enough housing,  jobs, hospital beds, doctors etc because the country has been run down in recent years.

If  we had a full stock of housing and proper jobs available and people could see their GP without waiting 3 weeks, most of us would accept immigrants again.

We are against immigration for a reason and that reason is not racism.  We just need a government who has the sense to know when the country is  "full up", and neither Labour, nor the Tories know this.

It's quite obvious that you move in different circles from me so maybe we can both claim to be right but, if it were put to the British people, I'm sure the nurses would be looked after better.

Your are simply wrong.   The LSE and other academic institutions have continuously shown the  NHS, veterinary services, various service industries, fruit and veg picking, construction industry and so on...has only kept going because of migrants.  The northern heartlands are most dependent on migrants who offer these services,  but they 're also the most likely to resent migrants. Like you've just shown in your post. You stated poor housing , GP waiting times is due to migration, when its migrants who've actually saved these industries.  You're blaming migrants instead of Govt cuts. Boris & Co know how to harness your resentment towards our saviours to win elections.  Corona death toll, PPE contracts, corruption, nurses pay is irrelevant when it comes to winning elections.  

Edited March 8, 2021 by 26b-6

[Organgrinder 1,946]

4 hours ago, 26b-6 said:

Your are simply wrong.   The LSE and other academic institutions have continuously shown the  NHS, veterinary services, various service industries, fruit and veg picking, construction industry and so on...has only kept going because of migrants.  The northern heartlands are most dependent on migrants who offer these services,  but they 're also the most likely to resent migrants. Like you've just shown in your post. You stated poor housing , GP waiting times is due to migration, when its migrants who've actually saved these industries.  You're blaming migrants instead of Govt cuts. Boris & Co know how to harness your resentment towards our saviours to win elections.  Corona death toll, PPE contracts, corruption, nurses pay is irrelevant when it comes to winning elections.  

You have turned on it's head, everything I have said to make it look the opposite.  I am not blaming migrants at all, I am blaming successive British Governments, both Labour & Conservative who have taken advantage of migrants for cheap labour, whilst refusing to expand services which have come under greater pressure due to the population increase.

As I said, they should have been expanding the council housing stock at a massive rate whereas they did the opposite.

They have cut investment in everyday services despite the fact that there are many more people who need those services.

I remember being able to go to the doctors without an appointment and you were seen the same morning. All the services that I have taken for granted for many years have either gone or are in very short supply.

For 3/4 of my life there were no beggars on the streets of Britain and there were no food banks or soup kitchens and there were very few homeless people.

This is not down to immigrants but to Governments who refuse to accept their responsibilities.

We used to have strict rules regarding how many people could live in a particular dwelling. Where are those rules now?

I, and many others like me, realise that when your house is full, you can't keep inviting more and more to come and live in it.

We realise that if we allow immigration to keep on growing, it will be impossible to see your GP within a month and that children will cope with ever rising class numbers in decrepit leaking schools.

Unlike you, I have no interest in who wins British elections because we don't have a single party worth voting for.

Unlike you and perhaps our government also, I have great interest in Corona death toll, PPE contracts, corruption, nurses pay, and fairness in general for the people of this country, including immigrants.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Organgrinder

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 hours ago, West 77 said:

Assuming either Boris or Mrs Boris remember the  Labour Peer's wallpaper then I agree with you. My point is both Tory and Labour politicians like spending other people's money on vanity projects.  Even the late great Mrs Thatcher was criticised for having the gates installed on Downing Street which was a common sense thing to do.  

 

The timing of the decision to seek money to redecorate the flat which won't be a slum adds weight to the argument that neither Boris or Mrs Boris don't live in the real world.  In the real world private pub owners and other businesses  forced to close are using their own money and time  to redecorate their premises and do other projects ready for when they are allowed to re-open again. 

But he has been voted in with a huge majority, democratically elected. You should trust him implicitly to do what's right for the country, his friends and his house. 

[Mister M 1,609]

The mask of civility has finally slipped

 

Lord Bethell, Government Health Minister in the House of Lords, defended the proposed 1% pay rise for nurses, saying that nurses are nurses "are well-paid for the job", and said they had secure jobs that many people would "envy". 

Lord Bethell insisted it was not a pay cut, but added: "There are millions of people out of work out of the back of this pandemic.

"There are lots of people who have had an extremely tough time and who face a period of unemployment. Nurses are well-paid for the job. They have a secure job and they have other benefits.

"There are many people in this country who look upon professional jobs within the NHS with some envy and we shouldn't forget the fact that some public sector jobs are, in fact, extremely well-paid."

 

Nurses are well-paid for the job, says health minister - BBC News

 

I wonder what 'benefits' his unelected and very wealthy Lordship was thinking of? Catching Covid whilst at work? 

[ECCOnoob 1,020]

Good for him.    Somebody needed to grow a pair and say it.    Lets not deny lots of people are thinking it anyway.

 

At a time when whole sectors of the economy are in tatters, national high street anchors are going bust, thousands of people are losing their jobs and thousands of others have suffered caps or drops in their income their whining over getting any sort of pay rise are quite frankly ludicrous.

 

Nobody is saying its not a worthy job.  Nobody is denying they have all worked hard during this crisis.  Nobody is putting down their dedication and qualifications.

 

But, they are doing a job - just like anyone else.   They signed up.  They knew the salary.  They have had the luxury of several pay increments previously and even this so called "insulting" one is above the current level of inflation. 

 

Face facts.  Their job is well paid compared to many others.    Yes - its a graduate job - but so are hundreds of other roles.   Yes - its vital and demanding work - but so are hundreds of other roles.  Yes - the pay rise is mediocre compared to their previous ones - but so what?  The world is currently in recession.   Somebody has to make the tough decision to balance the books when its taxpayers who fund their wage.   Even more when the costs of covid needs to be repaid.

 

For all the celebrity talking heads, slacktivism campaigning  and union grandstanding - I am not convinced they will get sufficient public on thier side if they push this one too hard.   I certainly wont be.

Edited March 9, 2021 by ECCOnoob

[El Cid 214]

2 hours ago, Mister M said:

"There are lots of people who have had an extremely tough time and who face a period of unemployment. Nurses are well-paid for the job. They have a secure job and they have other benefits.

"There are many people in this country who look upon professional jobs within the NHS with some envy and we shouldn't forget the fact that some public sector jobs are, in fact, extremely well-paid."

 

I dont get this envy of other people pay/job. Train drivers get £50/£60k that is great fot them.

Do nurses and other staff deserve more than 1%, quite probably.

If you are envious of other peoples pay, its real easy to set up a profile and look for jobs within the NHS, you may need a degree for some roles.

[Mister M 1,609]

2 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Good for him.    Somebody needed to grow a pair and say it.    Lets not deny lots of people are thinking it anyway.

 

At a time when whole sectors of the economy are in tatters, national high street anchors are going bust, thousands of people are losing their jobs and thousands of others have suffered caps or drops in their income their whining over getting any sort of pay rise are quite frankly ludicrous.

 

Nobody is saying its not a worthy job.  Nobody is denying they have all worked hard during this crisis.  Nobody is putting down their dedication and qualifications.

 

But, they are doing a job - just like anyone else.   They signed up.  They knew the salary.  They have had the luxury of several pay increments previously and even this so called "insulting" one is above the current level of inflation. 

 

Face facts.  Their job is well paid compared to many others.    Yes - its a graduate job - but so are hundreds of other roles.   Yes - its vital and demanding work - but so are hundreds of other roles.  Yes - the pay rise is mediocre compared to their previous ones - but so what?  The world is currently in recession.   Somebody has to make the tough decision to balance the books when its taxpayers who fund their wage.   Even more when the costs of covid needs to be repaid.

 

For all the celebrity talking heads, slacktivism campaigning  and union grandstanding - I am not convinced they will get sufficient public on thier side if they push this one too hard.   I certainly wont be.

You don't surprise me.

[apelike 10]

3 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

For all the celebrity talking heads, slacktivism campaigning  and union grandstanding - I am not convinced they will get sufficient public on thier side if they push this one too hard.   I certainly wont be.

I think you are right. The idea of a strike is a union lead idea and as it's a good current topic the media have jumped on it. I doubt that if it comes to a nurses ballot that the nurses will vote yes to striking despite the union starting a £35 million fund for it. As you say it's a job and they should know full well what that entails. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by apelike

[tinfoilhat 11]

The bill Track and trace, which made no difference according to reports, now goes up to £37bn.

 

That's £37bn. (Thirty seven billion). I wish I'd made more of an effort to be friends with my Tory MP. 

[Longcol 597]

22 hours ago, apelike said:

I think you are right. The idea of a strike is a union lead idea and as it's a good current topic the media have jumped on it. I doubt that if it comes to a nurses ballot that the nurses will vote yes to striking despite the union starting a £35 million fund for it. As you say it's a job and they should know full well what that entails. 

I'm sure all the nurses signed up knowing they'd be coping with a pandemic - like having a major disaster on your doorstep daily.

 

Presume you think firefighters are overpaid because they don't fight fires the length of each shift on a daily basis ...............................

[apelike 10]

2 hours ago, Longcol said:

I'm sure all the nurses signed up knowing they'd be coping with a pandemic...

Nurses sign up to do a job and guess what that job is.. yep its nursing as that is what they signed up to do.