The Conservative Party - Part Two.

[altus 540]

8 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Well that's a reasoned and informed counterpoint.

I don't disagree with some of that. However it would have been helpful if some of the opposition exhausted some efforts into applying some of that reality, debating and cooperating with the government in trying to reach the best possible outcome.

 

Instead, there is no doubt in my mind that a lot of wasted energy was spent on merely taking a oversimplistic polarised position on everything brexit related and desperately trying to find ways of undermining or disrupting  the result.

It seems yet again to be necessary to point out that if a government wants the support of the opposition they have to propose something the opposition can support. They can't get away with saying 'we want to do this' and expect automatic support. It's also worth noting that the members of the ERG and other assorted brexit ultras in the Tories were more responsible than anyone else for "taking a oversimplistic polarised position on everything brexit related".

[Mister Gee 822]

It gets even better.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/05/give-me-back-my-200000-major-donor-tells-tories

[Guest sibon]

3 hours ago, Mister Gee said:

It gets even better.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/05/give-me-back-my-200000-major-donor-tells-tories

My favourite bit of that article is the fact that he wants a refund because he didn't get a magic show from Penny Mordaunt.

[The Joker 10]

4 hours ago, sibon said:

My favourite bit of that article is the fact that he wants a refund because he didn't get a magic show from Penny Mordaunt.

Given the other “prizes” were breakfast with Shagger Boris, and sushi with Jeremy Hunt, I would demanded the magic show too.

[Mister Gee 822]

7 hours ago, sibon said:

My favourite bit of that article is the fact that he wants a refund because he didn't get a magic show from Penny Mordaunt.

hackey will sympathize with him, he dreams of a magic show with Mordaunt.

[hackey lad 3,963]

4 hours ago, Mister Gee said:

hackey will sympathize with him, he dreams of a magic show with Mordaunt.

You know it baby 😍

[L00b 441]

On 05/02/2022 at 14:11, West 77 said:

What standards have been diverge?   The majority of trade from the UK mainland to Northern Ireland is food. There has be no change in  UK foods standards since Brexit meaning they are still in line with EU standards. In any case a trusted trader scheme would only apply for UK mainland businesses sending food to Northern Ireland and not Ireland.  

I’m really surprised that you would argue the point:

https://www.politico.eu/article/david-frost-tells-eu-british-divergence-just-beginning/
 

Northern Ireland is still “in the EU” in so far as goods trading is concerned, hence my earlier point stands. Undertake to keep aligned, and you can have a Trusted Trader Scheme or the like. But the UK government does not want to, and makes ever shriller noises about divergence -typified by that link- despite the public and corporate’s strong support for the Protocol in Northern Ireland itself.
 

This NI in EU/Irish sea border was a policy choice of successive Conservative governments, eventually validated through Parliamentary vote.

 

It is high time that pro-Leave people stopped the arguing for arguing’s sake whenever pro-trade people present them with the facts of the situation, both historical and current.
 

Because, looking at more recent posts variously charging remainers, the opposition and whoever else with slowing Brexit in times past, it should not need reminding by now, that no political force has done more to impede an orderly rollout of Brexit since 2016, than factions internal to the Conservatives themselves. Johnson’s deal is May’s deal dressed up with a slogan and copious lies, even the ERG recognise that now - yet they voted it down twice under May’s tenure as PM.

Edited February 7, 2022 by L00b

[Dromedary 166]

5 hours ago, L00b said:

Johnson’s deal is May’s deal dressed up with a slogan and copious lies, even the ERG recognise that now - yet they voted it down twice under May’s tenure as PM.

It has some elements of Mays deal and that was to be expected but Mays proposed deal to parliament also included this:

 

“There will be a vote for MPs on whether the deal should be subject to a referendum” “The Government will … include in the Withdrawal Agreement Bill at introduction a requirement to vote on whether to hold a second referendum [11]. "This must take place before the Withdrawal Agreement can be ratified. And if the House of Commons were to vote for a referendum, it would be requiring the Government to make provisions for such a referendum – including legislation if it wanted to ratify the Withdrawal Agreement.”

 

The above is is possibly why it was voted down twice.

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Dromedary said:

It has some elements of Mays deal and that was to be expected but Mays proposed deal to parliament also included this:

 

“There will be a vote for MPs on whether the deal should be subject to a referendum” “The Government will … include in the Withdrawal Agreement Bill at introduction a requirement to vote on whether to hold a second referendum [11]. "This must take place before the Withdrawal Agreement can be ratified. And if the House of Commons were to vote for a referendum, it would be requiring the Government to make provisions for such a referendum – including legislation if it wanted to ratify the Withdrawal Agreement.”

 

The above is is possibly why it was voted down twice.

I thought that 2nd referendum had been canned by the time of the last HoC vote under May? (it was nonsensical anyway, all considerations of constitutional impropriety and insufficient time for it put aside…I probably posted/said that at the time).

 

As I recall, the LPF provisions were much more of a bone of discontent for the Ultras, they were eventually moved from the Treaty to the political declaration in 2019. This intent to diverge is still there, today’s proposals about diverging automotive standards is a belter 😂

 

Anyway, sure: if you want to take a microscope to the exercise, there are certainly differences to be found. But none of those are fundamental differences, relative to the earlier versions. The border was originally proposed, and still is, in the Irish Sea; likewise the form of Brexit achieved was originally proposed, and still is, fairly ‘hard’ relative to a position -say- intermediate EFTA members (or even Turkey, which is CU only) and ‘no deal’.

Edited February 7, 2022 by L00b

[Mister M 1,622]

Talk about being damned by faint praise.

 

Johnson's new communications chief, the ex BBC political correspondent Guto Harri, said:

"Johnson's not a complete clown".

Boris Johnson ‘not a complete clown’, says his new press chief | Boris Johnson | The Guardian

 

Okay then Guto. How much of a clown is he? 75% 80%? You do have to wonder - what with him not knowing when a party isn't a party, what the Covid rules are (even though he helped devise them), references to Peppa Pig, and Kermit the frog in front of selected audiences, persistent lying in the Commons....

Jeez, if a Labour leader was even 1% as buffonish as this prat we have now, half the country's press and population would be in meltdown.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Mister M

[Mister M 1,622]

I see that Kier Starmer had to be rescued by he police outside Parliament from a mob of anti vaxxers, carrying nooses and shouting Saville slurs.

Wonder where they got that idea from?  

[Mister Gee 822]

2 hours ago, Mister M said:

Talk about being damned by faint praise.

 

Johnson's new communications chief, the ex BBC political correspondent Guto Harri, said:

"Johnson's not a complete clown".

Boris Johnson ‘not a complete clown’, says his new press chief | Boris Johnson | The Guardian

 

Okay then Guto. How much of a clown is he? 75% 80%? You do have to wonder - what with him not knowing when a party isn't a party, what the Covid rules are (even though he helped devise them), references to Peppa Pig, and Kermit the frog in front of selected audiences, persistent lying in the Commons....

Jeez, if a Labour leader was even 1% as buffonish as this prat we have now, half the country's press and population would be in meltdown.

Another role he is incapable of fulfilling.