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The Conservative Party - Part Two.

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2 hours ago, Mister Gee said:

I’ve not got you weighed up yet pal

Don't worry, I am quite well enough qualified to be agreeing with your judgement that Dorries and Williamson are both numpties. It won't reflect (too) badly on you having me agree with you if that is what you are worried about.

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54 minutes ago, The Joker said:

'kin' hell. Stanley Johnson is 'known' to be handsy and to have broken his ex-wife's nose. The media continues to adhere to the Jimmy Savile approach: stuff's 'known' but it doesn't count until it's known widely.

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1 hour ago, Carbuncle said:

'kin' hell. Stanley Johnson is 'known' to be handsy and to have broken his ex-wife's nose. The media continues to adhere to the Jimmy Savile approach: stuff's 'known' but it doesn't count until it's known widely.

I think he's perceived and reported as a 'lovable rogue'. Doubt his ex wife, and those women who've been groped by him would think he's 'lovable'....

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So, the Tories have just unveiled another law change and longer sentences - this time its Tony's Law.  Last week it was Harper's Law.

 

I'm curious as to why the law wasn't changed during the Baby Peter trial some years ago? 

 

And was "Harper's Law" actually necessary because when a police officer was run down and killed in 2016 on the Wirral, his killer was given 20 years.

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6 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

So, the Tories have just unveiled another law change and longer sentences - this time its Tony's Law.  Last week it was Harper's Law.

 

I'm curious as to why the law wasn't changed during the Baby Peter trial some years ago? 

 

And was "Harper's Law" actually necessary because when a police officer was run down and killed in 2016 on the Wirral, his killer was given 20 years.

It was necessary because the killers of PC Harper weren't given life sentences and treated their trial as a joke.

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16 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

So, the Tories have just unveiled another law change and longer sentences - this time its Tony's Law.  Last week it was Harper's Law.

 

I'm curious as to why the law wasn't changed during the Baby Peter trial some years ago? 

 

And was "Harper's Law" actually necessary because when a police officer was run down and killed in 2016 on the Wirral, his killer was given 20 years.

Nice little 'soundbites' but all these laws - or amendments to current ones - actually have proper ones. Just wish the media wouldn't dumb them down.

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It worries me about the quality of the writtem laws. Presumably they're written at the instructions of the House of commons (having also passed through the House of Lords) by extremely well qualified and well renumerated Lawyers. And then thoroughly checked by the Law Lords. Is that the procedure?

Yet they seem to be full of loop holes and mistakes, ammendments and subsequent laws etc. which suggests to me that they sometimes aren't fit for purpose.

 

Also, while we're at it, why is the law no longer accessible to the common man, it being prohibitively expensive and outside his pocket, and often ends with unforseen outcomes (like winning a case but having to pay costs,)  that make it too risky to pursue. And I'm told the law is 'not about Justice, but about the Law.'

The exhorbitant cost of the law affects us all, as  ...'vs the Crown' cases are paid for with our taxes. Sometimes the costs of cases reported on the News (often in the £millions) makes my eyes water.

 

Are we getting value for money? 

  

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Oh dear Anna, you must live in a state of constant pessimism/depression. I would seek help, for the sake of your mental health.

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1 hour ago, Anna B said:

It worries me about the quality of the writtem laws. Presumably they're written at the instructions of the House of commons (having also passed through the House of Lords) by extremely well qualified and well renumerated Lawyers. And then thoroughly checked by the Law Lords. Is that the procedure?

In principle, any piece of nonsense can be passed by Parliament and therefore become law. In practice, the Government controls Parliament's schedule to the extent that with very few exceptions only things that the Government would like to pass get the necessary time on the calendar to become laws. Thus bills that will pass into law are (almost) always drafted on the instructions of the Government. This specific drafting on behalf of the Government is generally done by the Office of Parliamentary Counsel rather than by MPs

( https://lawsblog.london.ac.uk/2018/10/15/who-writes-the-law-the-work-of-parliamentary-counsel/ ).

 

For obvious reasons, the text of a law has to be available before Parliament gives final approval for it to be made law though of course some laws do give specific authority for particular bodies to make rules or regulate within a stipulated framework.

Edited by Carbuncle

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1 hour ago, Anna B said:

It worries me about the quality of the writtem laws. Presumably they're written at the instructions of the House of commons (having also passed through the House of Lords) by extremely well qualified and well renumerated Lawyers. And then thoroughly checked by the Law Lords. Is that the procedure?

Yet they seem to be full of loop holes and mistakes, ammendments and subsequent laws etc. which suggests to me that they sometimes aren't fit for purpose.

 

Also, while we're at it, why is the law no longer accessible to the common man, it being prohibitively expensive and outside his pocket, and often ends with unforseen outcomes (like winning a case but having to pay costs,)  that make it too risky to pursue. And I'm told the law is 'not about Justice, but about the Law.'

The exhorbitant cost of the law affects us all, as  ...'vs the Crown' cases are paid for with our taxes. Sometimes the costs of cases reported on the News (often in the £millions) makes my eyes water.

 

Are we getting value for money? 

  

You need to to realise that by it's very nature the law is constantly evolving, adapting, being changed. It is not a solid mass it is and always has been fluid.

 

There is not some black and white one size fits all option that covers every possible circumstance and every possible category of person in the country. Laws are not just thrown out there and apply -  they are judged on evidence tests, considered interpretation of its bindings and wording, a range of opinion, a range of application. 

 

The Separation of powers keeps it so laws can be challenged, repealed, amended and escalated through various stages of appeal and review.  You don't have to look hard to find examples of of totalitarian regimes with completely unchallengeable and inflexible regulations. We all know how they work out

 

As for these tiresome comments about costs and access to justice for the common man, I don't agree.    For routine work there are are plenty of legal remedies available to the so called ordinary man and woman the street including some solicitor services which are offered either free at the point of use, fixed amount deducted from an award or a multitude of capped fee arrangements.

 

Anyone has access to go to court submit a claim and present in front of the judge. Following the last two two major reforms to the civil law system the process has been even more streamlined with online portals and quick and easy processes that can be followed even without legal representation.

 

Of course when things get more complicated that's when lawyers will be havilly instructed and they come with a cost  -why?   Because they are highly skilled and qualified individuals taking significant time, efforts and resources to research the issues, collate evidence, and form a sufficient advice. That may include obtaining reports from experts of various disciplines, academics, medical professionals, scientists engineers, it will include generation and control of vast amounts of paperwork, and of course the costs of running a claim in to the courts with all its associated court fees. 

 

We don't begrudge paying highly qualified surgeons or doctors to deal with the complexities of the human body or worry about the billions of pounds spent on staffing and equipping hospitals .......but somehow when it comes to equally qualified and important lawyers to deal with complicated skills of navigating the legal system we somehow treat them dismissively, not necessary, minimum wage at best and with entitlement to nothing  more than a single light bulb, desk and a writing pad.

 

People need to wake up and realise that the realities of the legal profession is nothing like the glamour seen on television.    We are not all swanking round giant glass built offices, eating  caviar lunches with a bottle of Dom Perignon, driving home in our  sports cars to our 7 bedroom mansion houses. We are not all charging out at £1,500 an hour rocking up to court in our handmade Savile Row suits.

 

Go ask your average junior barrister slogging round the smaller civil courts or magistrates hearings for minimum fixed fees whether they feel they're getting a fair rate for their 7 + years of studies and qualification and battle for a pupillage.

 

Go and ask your average mid-level solicitor at some panel firm desprately trying to keep up with their profit target against highly competitive and heavily reduced hourly rates whether they feel they are being sufficiently renumerated for their  years of study, summer placements, battle for training contracts and stressful litigation experiences.

Edited by ECCOnoob

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