The Conservative Party - Part Two.

[Slinny 278]

59 minutes ago, steved32 said:

Don't hold your breath.  It's down to "the Briddish peepoo to a draw a line under this."

 

And they will, especially if Labour, Lib Dems et al coalesce!

 

Yes that would do it . But would they both agree.  If clegg had gone the other way we’ll say no more , but he fell for the five card trick . Mug 

[hackey lad 3,972]

3 hours ago, Mister M said:

Hang on, when Diane Abbott was Shadow Home Secretary, and Forum Tories were taking the mick out her ('abacus Abbott' etc); I'd point out all the inane things Tory Ministers had come out with - and I was accused of 'whatabouterry'!

So you can't have it both ways 

I can and I will 

[steved32 55]

So the lying PM is considering dispensing with the lost of ethics adviser.

 

For once I agree with him, as his complete lack of ethics means there is nothing to advise him on.

[Anna B 1,414]

The man is a charlatan, and a liar. You don't have to look far into Johnson's past to see he has total contempt for the working man. Bullingdon Boris is a dispicable Tory with an ingrained sense of entitlement and no real knowledge of the 'lower' orders. It's all an act... 

[Dromedary 166]

6 hours ago, West 77 said:

That is not true.

I agree.

 

He seems to have been on the ball over the Russian/Ukraine war and has shown up the heads of Germany, France and Italy for being bungling and incompetent in their handling of it so far.

 

4 hours ago, Anna B said:

The man is a charlatan, and a liar. You don't have to look far into Johnson's past to see he has total contempt for the working man. Bullingdon Boris is a dispicable Tory with an ingrained sense of entitlement and no real knowledge of the 'lower' orders. It's all an act... 

Anna, can you please define what "the working man" means in this day and age in the UK as it seems to be a quickly disappearing act that most people do not want to be part of.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Dromedary

[Mister M 1,625]

51 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

I agree.

 

He seems to have been on the ball over the Russian/Ukraine war and has shown up the heads of Germany, France and Italy for being bungling and incompetent in their handling of it so far.

 

Anna, can you please define what "the working man" means in this day and age in the UK as it seems to be a quickly disappearing act that most people do not want to be part of.

Simply a working man is someone who has to work for a living. In popular usage it is someone of social class C2 or below. 

Whether people want to be part of that is immaterial. I'm sure that Boris Johnson wants to be part of the upper echelons of society. However given that he was outed as not having the money for his Downing Street refurb immediately , doesn't alter the fact that he didn't have the ready cash to pay for it. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Mister M

[PRESLEY 1,229]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

The man is a charlatan, and a liar. You don't have to look far into Johnson's past to see he has total contempt for the working man. Bullingdon Boris is a dispicable Tory with an ingrained sense of entitlement and no real knowledge of the 'lower' orders. It's all an act... 

I agree, the Tory Goverment has never done any good for the working class, blundering middle and upper class twits who have and still are ruing this country,  they are anti north and anyone up north who supports them are insane. 

[ECCOnoob 1,041]

1 hour ago, Mister M said:

Simply a working man is someone who has to work for a living. In popular usage it is someone of social class C2 or below. 

Whether people want to be part of that is immaterial. I'm sure that Boris Johnson wants to be part of the upper echelons of society. However given that he was outed as not having the money for his Downing Street refurb immediately , doesn't alter the fact that he didn't have the ready cash to pay for it. 

That is anyone from street cleaner to company director.  Fine. Thank you for clarifying that basically working man is anyone in the political spectrum in any sort of income bracket.

 

In other words, all this anti-tory ranting about them not representing the Working Man and Labour purportedly being their champions is a load of horse crap.

[Dromedary 166]

40 minutes ago, Mister M said:

Simply a working man is someone who has to work for a living.

So that would include Boris then... Sorry just joking. 

 

Only the rich have no need to work for a living as they can employ someone else to do that work for them.

 

40 minutes ago, Mister M said:

In popular usage it is someone of social class C2 or below. 

Not too sure if that is the case anymore as its more likely the DE category now which is mainly semi skilled, unskilled including unemployed and minimum wage jobs which accounts for around 26% (HRP population 2011 stats though)

 

C1 is Supervisory, clerical, junior management and professional occupations around 31%

 

C2 is Skilled manual around 21%

 

Things have shifted a bit now though as a lot of those classed as working class before have now shifted into the higher group and more people have now become better educated have home ownership and also no longer class themselves as working class.

 

What I find strange however is that those that formulate what socialism means are actually in the top AB group, and that would also include Starmer and friends. Whatever way you look at it the top educated and those in the C1 group still make the decisions that the rest of us rely on.

 

Basically the old idea of a working class has changed dramatically and is not so clear cut anymore thats why its a bit annoying when people just say working class as if its still as relevant decades later.

 

[Mister M 1,625]

43 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

That is anyone from street cleaner to company director.  Fine. Thank you for clarifying that basically working man is anyone in the political spectrum in any sort of income bracket.

 

In other words, all this anti-tory ranting about them not representing the Working Man and Labour purportedly being their champions is a load of horse crap.

I was just giving what I thought a definition was.

FWIW I don't think any political party has exclusive ownership of representing one section of society or a monopoly on being champions of another section of society. For example Tories have, over the years, claimed to be the party of the working class and Labour representing middle class. Yes it's simplistic crap, simply because there are competing demands of different groups which sometimes conflict.

42 minutes ago, Dromedary said:

So that would include Boris then... Sorry just joking. 

 

Only the rich have no need to work for a living as they can employ someone else to do that work for them.

 

Not too sure if that is the case anymore as its more likely the DE category now which is mainly semi skilled, unskilled including unemployed and minimum wage jobs which accounts for around 26% (HRP population 2011 stats though)

 

C1 is Supervisory, clerical, junior management and professional occupations around 31%

 

C2 is Skilled manual around 21%

 

Things have shifted a bit now though as a lot of those classed as working class before have now shifted into the higher group and more people have now become better educated have home ownership and also no longer class themselves as working class.

 

What I find strange however is that those that formulate what socialism means are actually in the top AB group, and that would also include Starmer and friends. Whatever way you look at it the top educated and those in the C1 group still make the decisions that the rest of us rely on.

 

Basically the old idea of a working class has changed dramatically and is not so clear cut anymore thats why its a bit annoying when people just say working class as if its still as relevant decades later.

 

I don't find it strange that those who formulate and define ideologies tend to have higher than average qualifications. Typically they would be professors, or researchers at universities, so that makes them middle class. Nothing strange in that.  Though anyone can join in because everyone has a stake in the definitions. And that's always been the case.

I think ideas of class have always been much more nuanced than is often represented, and they change over time. I don't think things have ever been so clear cut.

Some people have moved up the income scale, some have moved down - relative to their parent's income.... I'm not an authority on this, just an interested reader. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Mister M

[Norbert 145]

3 hours ago, Dromedary said:

Things have shifted a bit now though as a lot of those classed as working class before have now shifted into the higher group and more people have now become better educated have home ownership and also no longer class themselves as working class.

How disingenuous , the working class have been buying their own homes for 60 years or more, and have been suckered into taking student loans for 30 don't you know.

 

Those that no longer class themselves as working class are working class. Almost by definition.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Norbert

[Mister M 1,625]

Never let a good crisis go to waste

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