The Conservative Party - Part Two.

[L00b 441]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

Yep, I have to agree. But then as Starmer is expelling all the Socialists in the Party what's the point of voting for them? They have just become Tory Lite.

Compared to the current Trumpian Tories, would that be so bad?

 

Right now your best bet with the current FPTP system is tactical voting. You may have to hold your nose and vote LD or Green instead of Labour. Such is the price if you want (edit: a chance of-) rid of Trumpian politics in the UK. The alternative is more of the same.

Edited May 2, 2022 by L00b

[hackey lad 3,970]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

That's true, but considering ordinary people far outnumber toffs, I cannot understand why the Tories keep getting voted in over and over again, especially with their appalling record to date. 

 

Turkeys voting for Christmas.....

Think its summat to do with Labour 

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

Yep, I have to agree. But then as Starmer is expelling all the Socialists in the Party what's the point of voting for them? They have just become Tory Lite.

 

Another problem is that in Scotland a lot of traditional Labour voters now vote for the Scottish Nationalist Party, and it's the same in Wales with Plaid Cymru, so the Labour vote is going to be split anyway. Add in the Greens and Lib Dems, and Labour haven't a prayer. Time for a new PR voting system I think. 

We cant win ,so we want to change the system 

[melthebell 863]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

Yep, I have to agree. But then as Starmer is expelling all the Socialists in the Party what's the point of voting for them? They have just become Tory Lite.

 

Another problem is that in Scotland a lot of traditional Labour voters now vote for the Scottish Nationalist Party, and it's the same in Wales with Plaid Cymru, so the Labour vote is going to be split anyway. Add in the Greens and Lib Dems, and Labour haven't a prayer. Time for a new PR voting system I think. 

You still dont get it do you?

You have to ask yourself

 

Does the general public want a full on socialist government?

Is Tory light equal to full Tory?

Is it better to be in government to change things or in opposition?

Does being perpetually in opposition help things overall?

Does being "Tory lite" mean you can still change peoples lives?

Does "Tory lite" mean you have to be as lying, cheating, disrespectful as the lot currently in power?

 

[HumbleNarrator 286]

5 hours ago, Dromedary said:

They keep getting voted in simply because there is no alternative viable replacement at the moment. If Labour manage to get their act together then I will go back to voting for them and I'm sure many others would too.

There is a lot of truth in this. Labour haven't been a  credible "government in waiting" now for a very long time. The wrong Milliband got the job all that time ago.

Edited May 2, 2022 by HumbleNarrator

[L00b 441]

Another fundamental issue is that British politics have got severely dragged to the right and divisive topics for years by the media in search of audience and clicks, taking the public discourse away from thoughtful and weighed policies over to a Trumpian circus.

 

This is symptomatic:

[Mister M 1,625]

On 01/05/2022 at 16:44, Anna B said:

I think you should catalogue their pronouncements, and their subsequent results.

 

People have short memories and the Tories are very good at making promises that sound good but they have no intention of keeping. They are also masters of spin and dirty tricks. They are not known as the nasty party for nothing. 

Thanks Anna....

 

....Nadine Dorries stupidity part 946:

 

 

This is Nadine Dorries' retweeting an article in the Daily Mail, complaining about Sir Kier Starmer, seemingly enjoying curry and beers during lockdown:

 

 

 

The photo used by the Daily Mail, and tweeted by Dorries is a crop of this picture:

 

 

 

 

And as John Nicholson MP points out:

 

The picture Nadine Dorries is retweeting is of Keir Starmer sharing a curry with Frank Dobson who died in 2019. Ergo he could not have been eating with Keir Starmer in 2021 no matter what time of day it was.

Nadine Dorries is the Cabinet minister responsible for #disinformation

 

 

12:43 PM · May 2, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

 

All you people who howled and guffawed at the then Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbot as completely clueless; well now you've got an actual Government Minister in Nadine Dorries, who staggers around like a vacuous airhead, desperate to believe and then retweeting the propaganda of the Daily Mail.

Utterly malevolent, utterly stupid and utterly humiliated.

No doubt Boris Johnson has full confidence in his Minister.

 

 

3 hours ago, HumbleNarrator said:

There is a lot of truth in this. Labour haven't been a  credible "government in waiting" now for a very long time. The wrong Milliband got the job all that time ago.

Is this lot in power credible?

Edited May 2, 2022 by Mister M

[Guest sibon]

23 hours ago, Dromedary said:

No, the way the brain works is not by the use of electrons but by the movement of electrically charged molecules moving through the brains membranes which uses an electrochemical reaction.

 

Try again.... 

 

 

I missed this earlier.

 

A simple question. How do the "electrically charged molecules" , or ions to most people, become electrically charged?

 

You do have a basic understanding of electrochemistry, don't you?

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by sibon

[alchresearch 214]

22 hours ago, Anna B said:

Yep, I have to agree. But then as Starmer is expelling all the Socialists in the Party what's the point of voting for them? They have just become Tory Lite.

How many times has this been said?  If you don't like it you and all the other socialists can set up your own party.

 

Scargill did back with Socialist Labour when he didn't like the way Blair was changing the party.

 

Socialist Labourites probably number fewer than Lib Dem supporters.

 

And you talk of Starmer expelling.  Was it this?

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-expels-far-left-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-from-labour_uk_60f6ffbfe4b0158a5eda82d7

[nightrider 13]

On 02/05/2022 at 13:42, Dromedary said:

They keep getting voted in simply because there is no alternative viable replacement at the moment. If Labour manage to get their act together then I will go back to voting for them and I'm sure many others would too.

Also if labour supporters stopped publicly saying people don't vote for them because they are brainwashed by the media, it might help.

 

People can buy the guardian if they want instead of the daily mail! If they buy the latter, they probably don't have left wing views in the first place anyway.

[Anna B 1,414]

4 hours ago, alchresearch said:

How many times has this been said?  If you don't like it you and all the other socialists can set up your own party.

 

Scargill did back with Socialist Labour when he didn't like the way Blair was changing the party.

 

Socialist Labourites probably number fewer than Lib Dem supporters.

 

And you talk of Starmer expelling.  Was it this?

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-expels-far-left-jeremy-corbyn-supporters-from-labour_uk_60f6ffbfe4b0158a5eda82d7

That just splits the vote more. We now have at least 5 parties fighting for the same voting demographic, plus the Conservatives, which means the Conservatives will get in again. The first past the post voting system was set up when there were only 2 parties, Whigs (Liberals) and Tories, and when the working man didn't even have the vote.

 

(It  wasn't until 1924 that newly formed Labour got their first Prime Minister, Ramsey MacDonald who had a terrible time of it apparently, as he was the illigitimate son of a washerwoman and a Scottish crofter, so not one of their 'club.' 

Things don't change do they...?)

 

The problem is the 5 different parties are idealistic and all want fairness and change, but disagree on how to get it and what the priorities should be. Therefore they split into different factions and split the vote. In contrast the Tory ethos is simplistic; they all  know exactly what they want, and that's Power at any cost.   And they are prepared to stoop to any level to get it.   No trick is too low, no deed too dark, if it gets them what they want. They have had centuries of practise. Their arrogance and sense of entitlement knows no bounds, they think they are born to rule, and God help anyone who tries to stop them.  

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Anna B

[ECCOnoob 1,040]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

That just splits the vote more. We now have at least 5 parties fighting for the same voting demographic, plus the Conservatives, which means the Conservatives will get in again. The first past the post voting system was set up when there were only 2 parties, Whigs (Liberals) and Tories, and when the working man didn't even have the vote.

 

(It  wasn't until 1924 that newly formed Labour got their first Prime Minister, Ramsey MacDonald who had a terrible time of it apparently, as he was the illigitimate son of a washerwoman and a Scottish crofter, so not one of their 'club.' 

Things don't change do they...?)

 

The problem is the 5 different parties are idealistic and all want fairness and change, but disagree on how to get it and what the priorities should be. Therefore they split into different factions and split the vote. In contrast the Tory ethos is simplistic; they all  know exactly what they want, and that's Power at any cost.   And they are prepared to stoop to any level to get it.   No trick is too low, no deed too dark, if it gets them what they want. They have had centuries of practise. Their arrogance and sense of entitlement knows no bounds, they think they are born to rule, and God help anyone who tries to stop them.  

 

 

 

 

You are well and truly deluded if you don't think for a second every other political party and career politician will do exactly the same. 

 

Just what the hell do you think partygate is all about, or Corbyn's stupid traingate episode, or the constant jibes and articles about 'out of touch' Tories and their posh ways, or all the tit-for-tat arguments over Labourites sending their kids to private schools, or all the exposes of Union leaders supposedly looking out for the common man whilst living on their fat salaries in subsidised houses or Clegg's disastrous student U-turn after getting a sniff of power........  

 

This is not simply some Tory problem.

 

This is politics. It's dog eat dog.. It's been very obvious for decades nobody actually gives a toss about policy or what a candidate will do for their community. To read some newspapers you forget it's supposed to be a local election with all the story focus banging on about party leaders with little mention of the actual candidates going to be representing our communities. Reason? Because the fickle, non-interested, easily bored electorate only care for snappy soundbites and personality.  Code for bigger though to actually bothered to read literature about what a candidate is going to offer. God forbid they will take the time to actually bother to research their candidate and see their past performances or connections or history. No no no it's basic neanderthal tribal war of blue and red.

 

The best candidate for the job, irrelevant of party allegiance doesn't even come near the conversation.  

Edited May 3, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Guest sibon]

5 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

You are well and truly deluded if you don't think for a second every other political party and career politician will do exactly the same. 

 

Just what the hell do you think partygate is all about, or Corbyn's stupid traingate episode, or the constant jibes and articles about 'out of touch' Tories and their posh ways, or all the tit-for-tat arguments over Labourites sending their kids to private schools, or all the exposes of Union leaders supposedly looking out for the common man whilst living on their fat salaries in subsidised houses or Clegg's disastrous student U-turn after getting a sniff of power........  

 

This is not simply some Tory problem.

I agree to an extent. But partygate is about far more.

 

Until the Tories understand why it is cutting through so effectively, they are doomed to making the same mistake over and over.

 

Partygate will finish this shambles of a government and could push the Tories into the wilderness for a decade. Just as cash for questions did in the 90s.