The Conservative Party - Part Two.

[Anna B 1,401]

5 hours ago, West 77 said:

You're confused. Brexit was completed at the end of January in 2020 as promised in the Tory December 2019 manifesto. The issues involving Northern Ireland are about future trading relationships with the EU.  Future trading relationships will always be an on going process which is possible because the UK is a sovereign nation again.  The current government and any future government now have the power to act unilaterally or negotiate with the EU regarding changes to any arrangements that are not working properly or not in the interest of any part of the UK.

There is still a great deal of negotiating to be done. We will see the calibre of the people doing the job by the quality of the results. Judging by past experience of this lot, I'm not hopeful...

[tinfoilhat 11]

57 minutes ago, Anna B said:

There is still a great deal of negotiating to be done. We will see the calibre of the people doing the job by the quality of the results. Judging by past experience of this lot, I'm not hopeful...

Negotiating with who?

[altus 538]

15 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Unfortunately the rogue parliament supported by the rogue speaker sabotaged the withdrawal agreement negotiations during Theresa May's time as prime minister and the early days when Boris Johnson became prime minister by preventing the UK from leaving the EU without a deal.

The only thing rogue during May's premiership was her government in its illegal attempt to bypass the sovereignty of parliament - which it why they lost the court case brought by Gina Miller. David Davis, who was Chief Negotiator for Exiting the EU at the time, has since said he supported Miller taking the government to court.

 

Quote

Anyone who has negotiated for anything know one of the best negotiating tools is the option to walk a way from a proposed deal.  Boris Johnson deserves much credit for getting the EU to alter the original withdrawal agreement negotiated by Theresa May and get the Backstop removed while at the same time having his hands tied behind his back as a consequence of the treacherous behaviour of the anti Brexit rogue parliament. 

Anyone who's negotiated anything knows that one of the best negotiating tools is being prepared in advance and having an idea of what you want - something those negotiating Brexit on our behalf had woefully failed to prepare for because those in favour of Brexit, even just those within the Tory party, couldn't even agree amongst themselves what they wanted from it.

[Carbuncle 0]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

It's still early days.  Any issues will be resolved. Whenever changes happen good businesses get on with making money and find solutions while inefficient poorly run businesses whinge. 

Early days for the negotiations which were supposedly done ... as in 'get Brexit done'. Also without repudiating the treaty the sovereignty lost is returnable at the EU's discretion.

 

Of course, goods are flowing without friction within the EU and/  including across the border between the North and the Republic of Ireland.

[Magilla 510]

40 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

Of course, goods are flowing without friction within the EU and/  including across the border between the North and the Republic of Ireland.

Indeed, which is why the big six leading retailers, representing over 75% of NI's grocery market, have just threatened to move their supply chains from the UK to the EU

[Carbuncle 0]

2 minutes ago, West 77 said:

In some ways I beginning to admire the anti Brexit mob because they never give up a bit like the flat earth brigade don't give up.  Apparently one of the flat earth brigade has proved the World is really flat after placing a spirit level on top of an aeroplane. 

I'm puzzled this doesn't seem to have been written by Conservative Party central office. Are you feeling ok?

[altus 538]

44 minutes ago, West 77 said:

In some ways I beginning to admire the anti Brexit mob because they never give up a bit like the flat earth brigade don't give up.  Apparently one of the flat earth brigade has proved the World is really flat after placing a spirit level on top of an aeroplane. 

You'll be fast enough to claim any benefits of Brexit, you get to own any downsides too.

 

The only people comparable to flat earthers here are the those denying the reality of the negative consequences of Brexit.

[Longcol 597]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

In some ways I beginning to admire the anti Brexit mob because they never give up a bit like the flat earth brigade don't give up.  Apparently one of the flat earth brigade has proved the World is really flat after placing a spirit level on top of an aeroplane. 

The anti Europe wing of the Tory Party didn't give up since the UK joined the EEC.

[Magilla 510]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

It's no coincidence that UKIP was formed the year after the Maaestricht Treaty was signed.  

The Maastricht Treaty, more than anything else, was the catalyst that led to peace in NI!

[Magilla 510]

2 hours ago, West 77 said:

Let's be honest there hasn't really been real peace in Northern Ireland since the Good Friday Agreement.

Nonsense!

 

The GFA was only possible, because of the Maastricht Treaty.

[altus 538]

29 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Your claim that the Good Friday Agreement was only possible because of the Maastricht Treaty is utter nonsense. I've already pointed out to you the Anglo / Ireland Agreement was signed in 1985 which is 7 years before the Maastricht Treaty was signed.

The fact that the Anglo Irish agreement predates the Maastricht Treaty is irrelevant, it's what they both enabled that counts.

 

The Maastricht Treaty, and the formation of the EU single market that it lead to, enabled the removal of border posts between NI and the Republic. Without the removal of the border posts, it's difficult to see how the GFA could have happened. Not having border posts is so important to the GFA, and hence peace in NI, that Boris has put our border with the EU in the Irish Sea rather than on the island itself.

[Magilla 510]

41 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Your claim that the Good Friday Agreement was only possible because of the Maastricht Treaty is utter nonsense.

Nope, the Maastricht Treaty was the mechanism by which the removal of border posts was possible.

 

41 minutes ago, West 77 said:

I've already pointed out to you the Anglo / Ireland Agreement was signed in 1985 which is 7 years before the Maastricht Treaty was signed.

It gave the Republic of Ireland a role in the governance of Northern Ireland and as such went down like a lead balloon with unionists.

 

41 minutes ago, West 77 said:

I've acknowledged the EU played a role in obtaining the Good Friday Agreement but you embarrass yourself yet again by over egging the pudding.

Nah, the egg is most definitely all over your face on this one!

 

41 minutes ago, West 77 said:

  John Mayor, Tony Blair, Bill Clinton, David Trimble and Mo Mowlam were the leading politicians that helped in obtaining the Good Friday Agreement.

Made possible by the Maastricht Treaty!