The Conservative Party - Part Two.

[alchresearch 209]

18 hours ago, Anna B said:

I believe Starmer is failing. He has disengaged a horde of Labour followers by removing the whip from Jeremy Corbyn, and even those that didn't particularly like Corbyn's brand of politics know he was a decent, non-racist man who didn't deserve that treatment. 

 

And what about all the Labour voters who were disengaged by Corbyn and his followers?  If we weren't with him we were labelled "Tory lite" and "Blairites".

 

As for Stamer, is there any opposition leader who's had an easy ride after a key figure is ousted?  It always takes a few leaders until they get the election winning one. 

[Anna B 1,401]

14 hours ago, alchresearch said:

And what about all the Labour voters who were disengaged by Corbyn and his followers?  If we weren't with him we were labelled "Tory lite" and "Blairites".

 

As for Stamer, is there any opposition leader who's had an easy ride after a key figure is ousted?  It always takes a few leaders until they get the election winning one. 

No, but there's now a steady flow of new leaders all the time in both parties so it's hardly noteworthy. 

 

As for the Labour supporters who didn't like Jeremy Corbyn, a lot of them weren't that politically engaged in the first place to follow all the nuances of the last election, and a good many of them only voted Conservative to 'Get Brexit Done,' as that was what Boris cleverly made the election all about. 

 

We'll see if Blairite Starmer can bring them back, but from what I've read he's actually well behind in the polls at the moment, which considering Bumbling Boris' poor performance, takes some doing.

[Arnold_Lane 0]

7 hours ago, Anna B said:

We'll see if Blairite Starmer can bring them back, but from what I've read he's actually well behind in the polls at the moment, which considering Bumbling Boris' poor performance, takes some doing.

If Corbyn had not lost two elections you wouldn't need to moan about Starmer.

 

Continuing to throw around neoliberal, Tory-lite, Blairitie etc. as political smears is getting beyond tedious now.

7 hours ago, Anna B said:

As for the Labour supporters who didn't like Jeremy Corbyn, a lot of them weren't that politically engaged in the first place to follow all the nuances of the last election, and a good many of them only voted Conservative to 'Get Brexit Done,' as that was what Boris cleverly made the election all about. 

I'd go so far as to say some voted for the Tories because they found the small army around Corbyn who treated him like an infallible yet demonised Messiah rather disturbing and off-putting.  

Edited April 20, 2021 by Arnold_Lane

[ECCOnoob 1,015]

11 hours ago, Anna B said:

 

We'll see if Blairite Starmer can bring them back, but from what I've read he's actually well behind in the polls at the moment, which considering Bumbling Boris' poor performance, takes some doing.

That "...bumbling poor performance..." as you call it won the election with a huge majority and kept the Tories consistently ahead in most of the reported polls.

 

So, with exception of your own clearly biased opinion what exactly is your credible and reasoned statements for judging "poor" about johnson's performance??  He won the election. He consistently beats the opposition in the poll. That is a damn sight more than the current opposition leader is doing and far far more than any of the achievements accomplished by your beloved St Jeremy of Islington.

 

The left are consistent losers. A quick look back in the history of politics proves that. This talk about so called lack of representation for the so-called "real working-class population" is nonsense. This constant attention and efforts chasing this non-existent category of voters fails time and time again.   Huge swathes of the population have evolved. They no longer see themselves in such black and white categories. It's about time certain political parties and particularly their fringe organisations learn that.

 

The 'people' have spoken multiple times. They don't want it. They don't want what you personally seem to keep insisting they want.  

 

Quite frankly, I found it quite insulting when people from the losing side blame anyone and everyone for their Party or Candidates election failures. There's nothing worse than being told by an election loser that you are unintelligent, uneducated, racist, sexist, rich, uncaring, elitist or whatever word of insult they choose, simply because they insist your choice of vote was wrong and their choice of vote was right.  

 

Back in the day, whatever party won it was accepted.  49% of the population may not have liked it but that was the democratic process we had. But now, there seems to be this trend of the opponent's of whichever government gets into power spending the next eternity shouting down, name-calling, nitpicking, bullying and generally causing a nuisance to anyone who dared to vote opposite to their own personal choice. Of course this is fuelled further  by the desperate newspapers for content to fill their rags and of course the instant speed of completely polarised opinions and faux outrage at comes with social media.

 

It's done. It's over.   Try again in 4 years and do better.  It really should be as simple as that. It sure used to be.  

Edited April 20, 2021 by ECCOnoob

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

That "...bumbling poor performance..." as you call it won the election with a huge majority and kept the Tories consistently ahead in most of the reported polls.

 

So, with exception of your own clearly biased opinion what exactly is your credible and reasoned statements for judging "poor" about johnson's performance??  He won the election. He consistently beats the opposition in the poll. That is a damn sight more than the current opposition leader is doing and far far more than any of the achievements accomplished by your beloved St Jeremy of Islington.

 

The left are consistent losers. A quick look back in the history of politics proves that. This talk about so called lack of representation for the so-called "real working-class population" is nonsense. This constant attention and efforts chasing this non-existent category of voters fails time and time again.   Huge swathes of the population have evolved. They no longer see themselves in such black and white categories. It's about time certain political parties and particularly their fringe organisations learn that.

 

The 'people' have spoken multiple times. They don't want it. They don't want what you personally seem to keep insisting they want.  

 

Quite frankly, I found it quite insulting when people from the losing side blame anyone and everyone for their Party or Candidates election failures. There's nothing worse than being told by an election loser that you are unintelligent, uneducated, racist, sexist, rich, uncaring, elitist or whatever word of insult they choose, simply because they insist your choice of vote was wrong and their choice of vote was right.  

 

Back in the day, whatever party won it was accepted.  49% of the population may not have liked it but that was the democratic process we had. But now, there seems to be this trend of the opponent's of whichever government gets into power spending the next eternity shouting down, name-calling, nitpicking, bullying and generally causing a nuisance to anyone who dared to vote opposite to their own personal choice. Of course this is fuelled further  by the desperate newspapers for content to fill their rags and of course the instant speed of completely polarised opinions and faux outrage at comes with social media.

 

It's done. It's over.   Try again in 4 years and do better.  It really should be as simple as that. It sure used to be.  

140k dead? Border in the Irish sea? Trouble in NI for the first time in decades? Corruption? 

 

Quick look! Football!!!!

[Delbow 681]

3 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Back in the day, whatever party won it was accepted.  49% of the population may not have liked it but that was the democratic process we had. But now, there seems to be this trend of the opponent's of whichever government gets into power spending the next eternity shouting down, name-calling, nitpicking, bullying and generally causing a nuisance to anyone who dared to vote opposite to their own personal choice.
 

Such magnanimity was a lot easier when governments made at least some effort to govern for everyone. Park Hill was built under a Tory government - good quality housing to lift ordinary people out of slums. A lot of social housing was built under Tory governments, for the same purpose. But since 1979 you've been active in trying to get rid of social housing, and since 2010 you have been deliberately pursuing policies that exacerbate homelessness and which are pushing people back into slums. While taking sizeable donations from property developers and then override local authorities' efforts to provide at least something like affordable housing. And what, you expect people to stand aside and not complain? 'One Nation' Toryism is dead. Johnson purged the last ones out of the party when he took over, did you not notice? Tory governments have more and more governed for a narrow, rich elite at the expense of others. From 2010, with their austerity polices, they  took money away from the most vulnerable - both from the actual cash in their benefits and from services like SureStart and mental health - deliberately (according to Nick Clegg and other LibDems) so that they could protect middle class voters in marginal constituencies from the effect of the crash, so that they would keep voting Tory. Um, well excuse us for complaining about that, we must seem most ungrateful.

 

To really see the absurdity of your position, just look to the USA. For 4 years they had a totally polarising president - do we think that Black and brown people should have just accepted that 'democracy' had installed an actual white supremacist who was happy to see them die? That they should have just gone along with it because they wouldn't want to be seen as moaners? That would be ridiculous. Whereas Biden, much as he won't be to the liking of the Trump loons, is at least trying to make life better for most people, or at least the most people he can with the resources he has. Remember when that was the point of government? Because I barely can.

 

If you want to see a return to more consensual politics then try, just try, governing for everyone and see how that goes.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Delbow

[hackey lad 3,928]

4 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

That "...bumbling poor performance..." as you call it won the election with a huge majority and kept the Tories consistently ahead in most of the reported polls.

 

So, with exception of your own clearly biased opinion what exactly is your credible and reasoned statements for judging "poor" about johnson's performance??  He won the election. He consistently beats the opposition in the poll. That is a damn sight more than the current opposition leader is doing and far far more than any of the achievements accomplished by your beloved St Jeremy of Islington.

 

The left are consistent losers. A quick look back in the history of politics proves that. This talk about so called lack of representation for the so-called "real working-class population" is nonsense. This constant attention and efforts chasing this non-existent category of voters fails time and time again.   Huge swathes of the population have evolved. They no longer see themselves in such black and white categories. It's about time certain political parties and particularly their fringe organisations learn that.

 

The 'people' have spoken multiple times. They don't want it. They don't want what you personally seem to keep insisting they want.  

 

Quite frankly, I found it quite insulting when people from the losing side blame anyone and everyone for their Party or Candidates election failures. There's nothing worse than being told by an election loser that you are unintelligent, uneducated, racist, sexist, rich, uncaring, elitist or whatever word of insult they choose, simply because they insist your choice of vote was wrong and their choice of vote was right.  

 

Back in the day, whatever party won it was accepted.  49% of the population may not have liked it but that was the democratic process we had. But now, there seems to be this trend of the opponent's of whichever government gets into power spending the next eternity shouting down, name-calling, nitpicking, bullying and generally causing a nuisance to anyone who dared to vote opposite to their own personal choice. Of course this is fuelled further  by the desperate newspapers for content to fill their rags and of course the instant speed of completely polarised opinions and faux outrage at comes with social media.

 

It's done. It's over.   Try again in 4 years and do better.  It really should be as simple as that. It sure used to be.  

Exactly the same names that brexit voters were called by the losing side .

[Anna B 1,401]

5 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

That "...bumbling poor performance..." as you call it won the election with a huge majority and kept the Tories consistently ahead in most of the reported polls.

 

So, with exception of your own clearly biased opinion what exactly is your credible and reasoned statements for judging "poor" about johnson's performance??  He won the election. He consistently beats the opposition in the poll. That is a damn sight more than the current opposition leader is doing and far far more than any of the achievements accomplished by your beloved St Jeremy of Islington.

 

The left are consistent losers. A quick look back in the history of politics proves that. This talk about so called lack of representation for the so-called "real working-class population" is nonsense. This constant attention and efforts chasing this non-existent category of voters fails time and time again.   Huge swathes of the population have evolved. They no longer see themselves in such black and white categories. It's about time certain political parties and particularly their fringe organisations learn that.

 

The 'people' have spoken multiple times. They don't want it. They don't want what you personally seem to keep insisting they want.  

 

Quite frankly, I found it quite insulting when people from the losing side blame anyone and everyone for their Party or Candidates election failures. There's nothing worse than being told by an election loser that you are unintelligent, uneducated, racist, sexist, rich, uncaring, elitist or whatever word of insult they choose, simply because they insist your choice of vote was wrong and their choice of vote was right.  

 

Back in the day, whatever party won it was accepted.  49% of the population may not have liked it but that was the democratic process we had. But now, there seems to be this trend of the opponent's of whichever government gets into power spending the next eternity shouting down, name-calling, nitpicking, bullying and generally causing a nuisance to anyone who dared to vote opposite to their own personal choice. Of course this is fuelled further  by the desperate newspapers for content to fill their rags and of course the instant speed of completely polarised opinions and faux outrage at comes with social media.

 

It's done. It's over.   Try again in 4 years and do better.  It really should be as simple as that. It sure used to be.  

Those 'consistent losers' as you so insultingly put it, are responsible for nearly every small advantage the working class has ever known. Leave it to the Tories and we would still be forelock tugging in the streets and hovels that we were allowed to rent for ridiculous rents, (oh dear, my mistake, that's what were going back to...)

 

If it wasn't for the Labour left (and the unions from which a large number of early Labourites came,) we would have no free education and higher education for all, no health and safety at work to ensure an end to appalling working practices, no  improvement to insecure work with low wages and exploitation leading to higher standards of living, no reasonable pension after 40 years of work, free health care for all 'from cradle to grave,' free care for the elderly, mothers and disabled both at home and in care homes, no affordable housing in new pristine council estate homes, with modern facilities and requirements like schools and shops, none and just about everything that has lifted the working class and allowed them equal opportunities and a good quality of life. The Tories aren't noted for doing things for the benefit of the working class, and the unnecessary austerity of the last 10 years and the rush to privatise is proof of that.

 

All of the above had to be hard fought for and hard won. I naively thought in my younger days that the battles had been won in perpetuity, but I have been proved wrong. Unfortunately we took our eye off the ball, and from 1979 onwards and with the arrival of 'free market economics' introduced by the Tories, these gains are being undone. The Tories have made it their business to 'roll back the state' and slowly unpick the welfare state, and replace responsible Capitalism which considered gains against losses and the laws of unintended consequences, with an economic free-for-all where profit, profit and more profit is the only thing that counts. It trumps everything else, and is primarily there for the benefit of the bosses at the expense of the people and the planet. The results after 40 years are becoming apparent to everyone and are changing the prospects of a lot of people , primarily, the young and the poorest.

 

I believe it was the general growing dissatisfaction in the way things were going that lead people to vote for Brexit, and shrewed Boris climbed on that bandwagon to win votes. The way things are going, we are going to need those determined, 'leftwing' firebrand Labour people to pull things back on track and make things fair again.  

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Anna B

[apelike 10]

2 hours ago, Delbow said:

Such magnanimity was a lot easier when governments made at least some effort to govern for everyone. Park Hill was built under a Tory government - good quality housing to lift ordinary people out of slums. A lot of social housing was built under Tory governments, for the same purpose. But since 1979 you've been active in trying to get rid of social housing, and since 2010 you have been deliberately pursuing policies that exacerbate homelessness and which are pushing people back into slums. While taking sizeable donations from property developers and then override local authorities' efforts to provide at least something like affordable housing.

Now if you look back at Sheffield under Labour since 1980 you will see that several thousand council properties have been demolished by the council and not replaced. Kelvin flats demolished, Norfolk Park flats, Maisonettes and some vic Hallams demolished. Moorfoot homes demolished and many other around Sheffield. Park Hill flats although not demolished was sold for a nominal sum to Urban Splash and received funding from a number of sources to renovate as it was a listed building and is now a private enterprise. The land that those demolished properties stood on was in most cases given away to encourage private redevelopment. All that happened under a Labour led council and they are still at it, giving away land instead of putting it up for tender in return for a few affordable homes. What do they do now, they blame the Government for the lack of social housing in Sheffield because of the right to buy!

 

 

 

[hackey lad 3,928]

Scowerdons  estate , hundreds of houses demolished .  A few new ones built . Now masses of open land ready to sell to private developers .

Edited April 20, 2021 by hackey lad

[apelike 10]

4 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

Wickfield estate , hundreds of houses demolished .  A few new ones built . Now masses of open land ready to sell to private developers .

Thanks for that as its one I didn't know about but now on my list! 

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 minute ago, hackey lad said:

Wickfield estate , hundreds of houses demolished .  A few new ones built . Now masses of open land ready to sell to private developers .

With "affordable housing" I'm sure. I read that the old Thoresby pit is being developed for housing. 149 homes built, 11 "affordable".  So, based on a quick look on Right Move £150k plus. That isn't affordable to an awful lot of young couples, and unaffordable to singles unless they have wealthy parents.