The Conservative Party - Part Two.

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 hour ago, RJRB said:

It always puzzles me what it means when someone takes full responsibility for a failure ,whether it be a football manager or as leader of a government.

Very rarely do they go further and resign .

We are now reliant on the vaccines being rolled out ,and all credit to the scientists who I hope have come up with the goods in record time.

Many other countries have demonstrated their ability to exert more control much more effectively over the last year.

There is a good reason why Johnson will not agree to an enquiry into the story so far and that is that it will reflect badly on him and most of his ministers.

Lessons must be learned now in so many respects,including some of the issues which have been exacerbated by previous years of austerity under the Tories.

 

They aren't learning though, they aren't even learning to be better a lying. We had a head start compared with Italy of a good couple of weeks, we screwed up then (delaying by a week was deadly - it was obvious) PPE was in short supply (it was globally, but rather than giving contracts he gave it to Tory party donors), not testing care home patients, etc etc etc - this isn't news to anyone. But they aren't learning they're doing it too late so Johnson is "forced" to do it, with no chance for anyone else to react.

 

In other news, he's still ahead in the polls. Short of feeding old people into a wood chipper I don't what it takes for a spectacularly large slice of the population to see how inept and corrupt he and his government are.

[Anna B 1,401]

4 hours ago, Flanker7 said:

He couldn't lie straight in bed.

Its obvious that Covid could have been stopped dead in its tracks if there were no concerns about the economy.

But that is the difficult bit - where to draw the line of keeping the economy ticking over and/or shutting down the transmission of Covid.

It is now obvious where the Conservative Party draw the line and it is firmly to 'keep the economy going' and sacrifice a number of infections, hospital admissions and ultimately deaths from Covid.

I hope there will stand or fall on that judgement. Remarks like the one above are blatently a lie . . . which doesn't win any votes.

The irony is that the economy is f..... anyway. 

 

10 years of unnecessaryTory austerity and cutting corners meant we failed to follow early WHO advice and so weren't prepared for a predicted pandemic. But there was a roadmap - the experiences in other countries.

 

A lot of what he did was what was being done in other countries first (even the clapping for carers) only he was doing too little of it, too late.

 

And he ignored the most important advice - 'testing, testing, testing' right at the start.

 

The man is a liability.

[Shreddie 10]

If there is 'public' enquiry does anyone expect that anyone will be found responsible and dealt with accordingly? If the previous trips down this road are anything to go by then I don't think that Boshambles and his cronies will have anything to worry about.  The excuse about keeping the economy safe has also worked a treat!

[RJRB 688]

7 minutes ago, Shreddie said:

If there is 'public' enquiry does anyone expect that anyone will be found responsible and dealt with accordingly? If the previous trips down this road are anything to go by then I don't think that Boshambles and his cronies will have anything to worry about.  The excuse about keeping the economy safe has also worked a treat!

In some respects a public enquiry over the actions and outcomes over the last year would be pointless unless the government is prepared to say where it would act differently in the future.

At the moment BJ is saying that everything possible has been done,and this is patently wrong as we look at over 100,000 deaths and who knows how many more to come.

I hope that voters and those in government will look much deeper into the Tory policies under Cameron,May and Johnson which left us so unprepared. 

In the name of austerity,hospitals ,councils schools and services have been cut to the bone and found themselves struggling to cope with extra demands.

  The irony is that a Conservative administration is now being forced to find the many billions that apparently were never available previously.

To use an analogy anyone with a car or a house learns that you must keep up with  the regular maintenance or head towards more expensive problems.

Time to stop the short term fixes and tackle the real issues

[apelike 10]

8 minutes ago, RJRB said:

......

I hope that voters and those in government will look much deeper into the Tory policies under Cameron,May and Johnson which left us so unprepared. 

The whole world was not prepared for this, not just our Conservative government and that was the problem. 

 

[tinfoilhat 11]

Just now, apelike said:

The whole world was not prepared for this, not just our Conservative government and that was the problem. 

 

Cuts in Healthcare, numbers of police,  cuts to council services. Despite the current lot in power, if the above hadn't been cut to the quick, we'd be in better shape - any country would.

[apelike 10]

4 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Cuts in Healthcare, numbers of police,  cuts to council services. Despite the current lot in power, if the above hadn't been cut to the quick, we'd be in better shape - any country would.

Cuts in healthcare.. was there? If there was then that's probably a maybe, as for the rest that just typical hype from anti conservatives who don't agree with anything the conservatives do or say. The numbers of police would have had no effect and cuts to council services would have had no effect. The latter have in fact been given £millions in grants to help them cope with extra costs relating to covid.

[tinfoilhat 11]

6 minutes ago, apelike said:

Cuts in healthcare.. was there? If there was then that's probably a maybe, as for the rest that just typical hype from anti conservatives who don't agree with anything the conservatives do or say. The numbers of police would have had no effect and cuts to council services would have had no effect. The latter have in fact been given £millions in grants to help them cope with extra costs relating to covid.

Are you being serious with the cuts in the NHS? I'm not sure if its satire I'm just not getting.

 

Numbers of police can help police lock downs. Do you think an extra 20k police officers wouldn't have helped this? And cuts to school budgets, cuts to social care haven't made any difference? Surestart I think has been cut completely.

 

I think you're just pulling my leg and you know all this you rascal!

[Anna B 1,401]

23 minutes ago, apelike said:

Cuts in healthcare.. was there? If there was then that's probably a maybe, as for the rest that just typical hype from anti conservatives who don't agree with anything the conservatives do or say. The numbers of police would have had no effect and cuts to council services would have had no effect. The latter have in fact been given £millions in grants to help them cope with extra costs relating to covid.

There is no question that there have been consistent and sustained cuts to healthcare over the previous 10 years. What do you think austerity is all about?

Neither have we been training enough doctors or nurses, we prefer to pinch them from other countries who need them just as much as we do.

 

Incidently the Tories managed to down grade the essential help needed to the disabled in the Government's emergency Coronavirus Act last March. It relaxed the legal onus on Local Authorities to provide care laid out in children's individual Education, Health and Care legislation and instead required them to 'do everything they can to continue meeting their existing duties.' 

 

In most instances this gave cash strapped councils the legal opportunity to offer no help at all. 

Note the word 'essential' help. Without it Disabled people are dying as a result.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Anna B

[apelike 10]

10 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Are you being serious with the cuts in the NHS? I'm not sure if its satire I'm just not getting.

Yes, I am being serious. there have been no cuts as far as I know. There have been budget alterations and lack of extra money to keep up but cuts? 

 

12 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Numbers of police can help police lock downs. Do you think an extra 20k police officers wouldn't have helped this?

No, as its not part of their remit as all they can do is what they are already doing and that is investigate breaches and fine the people involved and having extra police would not make much of a difference. Notice how the police have already reacted to this by not issuing fines in a lot of cases when it comes to lockdown breaches.

 

12 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

And cuts to school budgets, cuts to social care haven't made any difference? Surestart I think has been cut completely.

Again you talk about cuts but any cuts made are up to the local authority and as far as I can see people seem to be mixing it up a bit. The government may have cut local authority spending but most LA's seem to be coping and have cut out a lot of waste. I believe Sure Start is still in operation and it seems that the reason why some have close is because of a fall of over 20% in their use, but that is of course obviously a direct consequence of a 62% cut in early learning spending by LA's. But that's only according to the action for children's charity.

 

Not pulling your leg on this, that was in another thread where I mentioned Rick Grimes.... 

 

31 minutes ago, Anna B said:

There is no question that there have been consistent and sustained cuts to healthcare over the previous 10 years.

I agree that the NHS healthcare budget may have been lacking in investment but... that is not a cut. 

[Anna B 1,401]

40 minutes ago, apelike said:

Yes, I am being serious. there have been no cuts as far as I know. There have been budget alterations and lack of extra money to keep up but cuts? 

 

No, as its not part of their remit as all they can do is what they are already doing and that is investigate breaches and fine the people involved and having extra police would not make much of a difference. Notice how the police have already reacted to this by not issuing fines in a lot of cases when it comes to lockdown breaches.

 

Again you talk about cuts but any cuts made are up to the local authority and as far as I can see people seem to be mixing it up a bit. The government may have cut local authority spending but most LA's seem to be coping and have cut out a lot of waste. I believe Sure Start is still in operation and it seems that the reason why some have close is because of a fall of over 20% in their use, but that is of course obviously a direct consequence of a 62% cut in early learning spending by LA's. But that's only according to the action for children's charity.

 

Not pulling your leg on this, that was in another thread where I mentioned Rick Grimes.... 

 

I agree that the NHS healthcare budget may have been lacking in investment but... that is not a cut. 

Cutting money to local authorities (which the Tories have cut to the bone,) IS CUTS.

 

That affects everything the local authorities are responsible for - health, education, police, etc.

It's left to them to juggle too little money amongst too many things. 

 

And then the Tories can then pass the blame on to them.

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Anna B

[RJRB 688]

1 hour ago, apelike said:

The whole world was not prepared for this, not just our Conservative government and that was the problem. 

 

It’s about having sufficient slack in any system to cope more ably with the unexpected.

This was just one of those unexpected occurrences,although some had forewarned that there would be pandemics and strategic supplies should be maintained.

We were caught on the hop as far as this was concerned.

Funding has been cut in any number of areas,and as is usual under Tory rule the gulf between the haves and have nots gets ever wider.

They have cut costs,up to the point where many billions are being found to try to retrieve a parlours situation.