Jump to content
We’re excited to announce the forum is under new management! Click here for details.

Coronavirus - Part Two.

Recommended Posts

16 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

No. They are filters, a consequence of evolution, finely tuned to a balance between filtering out potentially harmful substances, without going so far that it affects the organisms health adversely.

 

Crucially, they are very different from sheets of fabric- if sheets of fabric were optimal, then we would have evolved to have something similar to sheets of fabric covering our mouths and noses- we don't, hence, they aren't [optimal].

 

Dave, you seem to be ascribing some level of perfection to the process of evolution which just isn't there. 

 

If evolution was perfect we wouldn't, for instance have the entrance to our digestive tract right next to our the entrance to our respiratory system.  That's just asking for trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Lockjaw said:

Dave, you seem to be ascribing some level of perfection to the process of evolution which just isn't there. 

 

If evolution was perfect we wouldn't, for instance have the entrance to our digestive tract right next to our the entrance to our respiratory system.  That's just asking for trouble.

Evolution does pretty well IMO.

 

I suspect that, when all relevant factors are taken into account, the positions of our mouth and nose are pretty much optimal. 

 

Where would you place them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Lockjaw said:

Dave, you seem to be ascribing some level of perfection to the process of evolution which just isn't there. 

 

If evolution was perfect we wouldn't, for instance have the entrance to our digestive tract right next to our the entrance to our respiratory system.  That's just asking for trouble.

I bet he wears shoes though. And a coat when it’s cold despite us living in a fairly temperate country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, whiteowl said:

There has been some concern about when (if!) we get a contact tracing app, people without smart phones being excluded. Singapore seems to have come up with a potential solution to this with a Covid tracing token :

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-54206824

Which keeps a precise record of your whereabouts. Cant see that being very popular over here!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

Evolution does pretty well IMO.

 

I suspect that, when all relevant factors are taken into account, the positions of our mouth and nose are pretty much optimal. 

 

Where would you place them?

Ha ha!  I knew you'd ask that.  I don't know, I'm neither evolution or a deity.  I was merely, and pretty effectively, pointing out the fallacy in your suggestion that evolution gets everything "right".

 

Now then, here's an interesting unforseen consequence of wearing face masks:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/face-masks-could-giving-people-covid-19-immunity-researchers/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, whiteowl said:

There has been some concern about when (if!) we get a contact tracing app, people without smart phones being excluded. Singapore seems to have come up with a potential solution to this with a Covid tracing token :

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-54206824

Could you really see youngsters happily carrying them with them to meet up with their mates in gangs on street corners or in each others houses, knowing that the devices would provide evidence of where they were?  Would ordinary people be happy carrying one with them to snoop on who they meet and where?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said:

Could you really see youngsters happily carrying them with them to meet up with their mates in gangs on street corners or in each others houses, knowing that the devices would provide evidence of where they were?  Would ordinary people be happy carrying one with them to snoop on who they meet and where?

You means like mobile phones do at the moment...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said:

Could you really see youngsters happily carrying them with them to meet up with their mates in gangs on street corners or in each others houses, knowing that the devices would provide evidence of where they were?  Would ordinary people be happy carrying one with them to snoop on who they meet and where?

I think they're more aimed at the older generation who are less likely to have a smartphone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lockjaw said:

Its not a very well written article.

 

Its still a hypothesis and one of the doctors involved even states "... that the commentary has its limitations and should not be construed as anything other than a theory."

 

The data is also about wearing masks of different grades and not face coverings though, ie just a piece of ungraded cloth. It also talks about reducing the viral load that the wearer is exposed to as opposed to face coverings which are meant to help stop the viral load being expelled outwards into the surrounding air. We already know that surgical masks do work and that's why they are used in hospitals etc.

 

Notice this bit at the end....

 

"In a coronavirus outbreak on a closed Argentinian cruise ship, for example, where passengers were provided with surgical masks and staff with N95 masks, the rate of asymptomatic infection was 81 per cent. This is compared with 20 per cent in earlier cruise ship outbreaks without universal masking."

 

So in order to have any beneficial effect nationally everybody need to wear a graded surgical mask.

 

1 hour ago, Litotes said:

You means like mobile phones do at the moment...?

No as you can turn off location tracking on a mobile phone.

Edited by apelike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, whiteowl said:

I think they're more aimed at the older generation who are less likely to have a smartphone.

In the UK the percentage of those over 16 that don't have a mobile phone now is very low at around 3%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, apelike said:

No as you can turn off location tracking on a mobile phone.

Only by turning the whole phone off - the phones have to link to a base station to get a signal and this can be triangulated/tracked.

34 minutes ago, apelike said:

Its not a very well written article.

 

Its still a hypothesis and one of the doctors involved even states "... that the commentary has its limitations and should not be construed as anything other than a theory."

 

The data is also about wearing masks of different grades and not face coverings though, ie just a piece of ungraded cloth. It also talks about reducing the viral load that the wearer is exposed to as opposed to face coverings which are meant to help stop the viral load being expelled outwards into the surrounding air. We already know that surgical masks do work and that's why they are used in hospitals etc.

 

Notice this bit at the end....

 

"In a coronavirus outbreak on a closed Argentinian cruise ship, for example, where passengers were provided with surgical masks and staff with N95 masks, the rate of asymptomatic infection was 81 per cent. This is compared with 20 per cent in earlier cruise ship outbreaks without universal masking."

 

So in order to have any beneficial effect nationally everybody need to wear a graded surgical mask.

 

No as you can turn off location tracking on a mobile phone.

Its not a very well written response.

It is a hypothesis but it is based on facts and data...

 

So to have a beneficial effect, everyone should wear a mask, ideally a graded surgical mask, but the figures show that any mask is better than none.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Litotes said:

Only by turning the whole phone off - the phones have to link to a base station to get a signal and this can be triangulated/tracked.

Turning it off is one way to have no tracking at all but triangulation tracking is not very accurate and can only give an approximate location which and useless for tracking a persons movements precisely.

 

13 minutes ago, Litotes said:

It is a hypothesis but it is based on facts and data...

Which the author states has its limitations, is just a theory and needs more data and time to test the hypothesis. 

 

13 minutes ago, Litotes said:

So to have a beneficial effect, everyone should wear a mask, ideally a graded surgical mask,

Strange as that's what I put as well... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.