Coronavirus - Part Two.

[Longcol 602]

19 minutes ago, apelike said:

Bringing a strawman into the discussion and then presuming what I may have said resulting from that strawman is a bit OTT even from you.....

Aaaaahhhhhhhh - a comparator figure you don't like and want to handwash away..........................

 

(you used the covid panic term)

 

Explain why we are overeacting to excess deaths of the magnitude we have been experiencing in spring and  early summer.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending7august2020

Edited September 17, 2020 by Longcol

[apelike 10]

9 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Aaaaahhhhhhhh - a comparator figure you don't like and want to handwash away..........................

No its you that does not like the term panic so you introduce a strawman instead and then presume what I may have said regarding it. 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by apelike

[Longcol 602]

3 minutes ago, apelike said:

No its you that does not like the term so you introduce a strawman instead and then presume what I may have said regarding it. 

 

Remember who used the term "covid panic".

 

Anyhow - what do you reckon to the comparison to the blitz figures - or the excess deaths this spring and early summer?

[apelike 10]

6 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Remember who used the term "covid panic".

Yes I know I did but somehow you decided to introduce a strawman into the argument and tried to compare what I said with a totally unrelated Fullfact org post on the blitz! Grasping at straws and bizarre to say the least.

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by apelike

[Longcol 602]

8 minutes ago, apelike said:

Yes I know I did but somehow you decided to introduce a strawman into the argument and tried to compare what I said with a totally unrelated Fullfact org post on the blitz! Grasping at straws and bizarre to say the least.

 

So you introduced thre strawman  - Covid Panic.  Everything flowing from it is fair game.

 

Happy to debate the figures? There seems to be a reluctance hiding behind pedantry........................

[Anna B 1,414]

This is not the Black death or Bubonic plague, it's a rather nasty strain of flu, which, like any flu, can affect older people more seriously than most, and like all flu, can turn into Pneumonia that kills.

 

Flu is an ever present hazard that we have to deal with every winter, but we do not usually go into lockdown, and wreck education, jobs and the economy on the strength of it. We now have a degree of immunity and also know the enemy better. It's time to return to normal, albeit with extra vigilance. Personally, I have no objection to wearing a mask and socially distancing if possible, but that's about it. Just be sensible. IMO I think everything else is overhyped hysteria.

 

Yes, there might be more cases, but most of those will happily survive, and so will more of the people who are currently finding it so difficult to get  treatment for other illnesses, including unnecessary anxiety and stress. It is in everyone's interest for all of us to return to normality asap. 

[Pettytom 1]

1 minute ago, Anna B said:

This is not the Black death or Bubonic plague, it's a rather nasty strain of flu, which, like any flu, can affect older people more seriously than most, and like all flu, can turn into Pneumonia that kills.

 

Flu is an ever present hazard that we have to deal with every winter, but we do not usually go into lockdown, and wreck education, jobs and the economy on the strength of it. We now have a degree of immunity and also know the enemy better. It's time to return to normal, albeit with extra vigilance. Personally, I have no objection to wearing a mask and socially distancing if possible, but that's about it. Just be sensible. IMO I think everything else is overhyped hysteria.

 

Yes, there might be more cases, but most of those will happily survive, and so will more of the people who are currently finding it so difficult to get  treatment for other illnesses, including unnecessary anxiety and stress. It is in everyone's interest for all of us to return to normality asap. 

It really isn’t just a nasty type of flu.

 

Just claiming that invalidates anything else that you have to say on the matter.

It doesn’t just turn into pneumonia. It doesn’t just kill older people. It absolutely needs to be treated with the utmost respect.

 

Covid 19 is right on the upper limit of expectations for any viral, respiratory disease. It is highly infectious and it causes significant organ damage in some patients. The potential long term impacts are still being understood, but they look grim.

 

Its not a bit of flu. You are going to have to wait a bit longer to go to the bingo or the opera.

[Longcol 602]

3 minutes ago, Anna B said:

This is not the Black death or Bubonic plague, it's a rather nasty strain of flu, which, like any flu, can affect older people more seriously than most, and like all flu, can turn into Pneumonia that kills.

 

Flu is an ever present hazard that we have to deal with every winter, but we do not usually go into lockdown, and wreck education, jobs and the economy on the strength of it. We now have a degree of immunity and also know the enemy better. It's time to return to normal, albeit with extra vigilance. Personally, I have no objection to wearing a mask and socially distancing if possible, but that's about it. Just be sensible. IMO I think everything else is overhyped hysteria.

 

Yes, there might be more cases, but most of those will happily survive, and so will more of the people who are currently finding it so difficult to get  treatment for other illnesses, including unnecessary anxiety and stress. It is in everyone's interest for all of us to return to normality asap. 

Perhaps because it wasn't winter when covid-19 struck and excess deaths went into overdrive - and we have flu jabs.

 

I agree with masks and social distancing - it appears we have large numbers of people who ignore it.

 

Normality ain't going to return while ever there are huge numbers of infections to potentially overwhelm the NHS with the knock on effect to other illnesses as we have already seen, cause large numbers of absentees in all  industries/ services  , especially the public facing ones - teachers, transport staff, shop workers etc etc.  

 

I'd love to return to normality but we can't just wish covid-19 away (unless you're Donald Trump).

[apelike 10]

9 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

....It doesn’t just kill older people. It absolutely needs to be treated with the utmost respect.

An age stats quote from the ONS on mortality from Covid-19 in England and Wales as of up to 4th September. (covid-19 mentioned on death certificate.)

 

"The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (46,781 out of 52,376)."

 

So yes it does kill mainly older people!

 

The other 5,595 get broken down as...

 

Between 45-64 = 5,019

Between 15-44 = 570

 

 

 

[Longcol 602]

7 minutes ago, apelike said:

An age stats quote from the ONS on mortality from Covid-19 in England and Wales as of up to 4th September. (covid-19 mentioned on death certificate.)

 

"The majority of deaths involving COVID-19 have been among people aged 65 years and over (46,781 out of 52,376)."

 

So yes it does kill mainly older people!

 

The other 5,595 get broken down as...

 

Between 45-64 = 5,019

Between 15-44 = 570

 

 

 

What's the life expectancy of someone aged 65? Perhaps when I was a kid 55 years ago in a mining village it might have been about 70.

 

65 isn't old these days - life expectancy is about 80.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=life+expectancy+uk&oq=life+expectancy+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l7.12399j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Edited September 17, 2020 by Longcol

[redruby 279]

7 hours ago, Anna B said:

This is not the Black death or Bubonic plague, it's a rather nasty strain of flu, which, like any flu, can affect older people more seriously than most, and like all flu, can turn into Pneumonia that kills.

 

Flu is an ever present hazard that we have to deal with every winter, but we do not usually go into lockdown, and wreck education, jobs and the economy on the strength of it. We now have a degree of immunity and also know the enemy better. It's time to return to normal, albeit with extra vigilance. Personally, I have no objection to wearing a mask and socially distancing if possible, but that's about it. Just be sensible. IMO I think everything else is overhyped hysteria.

 

Yes, there might be more cases, but most of those will happily survive, and so will more of the people who are currently finding it so difficult to get  treatment for other illnesses, including unnecessary anxiety and stress. It is in everyone's interest for all of us to return to normality asap. 

In addition to the points others have raised, there is also a flu jab available but no Covid vaccine yet.

I would love to return to normality, proper not ‘new’ normality, but it is not going to happen yet. 
There is so much muddled thinking, not least from the government. Cases were always going to start rising in autumn but in their push to get ALL kids back to school FULL TIME is not helping. All this rubbish about there not being evidence that kids spread the virus like they are a different species!! I agree that school is essential for children but we ought to think outside the box and develop plans for more blended online and classroom learning - where possible and for older children - instead of cramming all kids back to school at once.  
Then there was the push, now seemingly on the back burner, to get people back to offices.

Whether the government likes it or not, the virus will spread rapidly in crowded, indoor environments. It doesn’t make exceptions for classrooms and workplaces. Even with the so called ‘Covid secure’ measures in places if you have say, 30 people, in a classroom or office for several hours a day that is risky. Worse, a lot of modern schools, offices etc don’t even have windows that open. And even where windows can be opened they can’t be left open all day in winter without everyone freezing!!

Edited September 18, 2020 by redruby

[steved32 55]

So, Dido Harding has reportedly said that no-one could have foreseen the increased demand for testing.

 

Is this woman for real?  Is the letter "l" omitted from her name?

 

She seems to have brought her Talk Talk management "acumen" to the role of  Covid testing supremo.