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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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38 minutes ago, West 77 said:

It's not a hard sell for me to take the second AZ in June which is my appointment date.  The main  problems for AZ have been created by irresponsible foreign politicians such as Macron.  The decision to offer the under 30's an alternative vaccine is based on statistical unproven risk.  At the moment covid-19 infection rates are low in the UK and that together with evidence that the under 30's are unlikely to die with covid-19 means any possible unproven risk is almost the same to individuals under 30 not being vaccinated.  An increase in covid-19 infections in the UK would make the benefit of having  the AZ far greater than not being vaccinated for the under 30's.   All people are more at risk during a long car journey than any unproven risk associated with taking any covid-19 vaccine.  People who take long car journeys are not going to stop taking long car journeys and likewise people shouldn't refuse the AZ vaccine if offered to them.

I’ll be having my second AZ jab too. I’ll be advising my two kids to have a different vaccine. 
 

Unfortunately, the links to blood clots are there, they are real and they will affect take up. The advice for the under 30s to be offered an alternative jab is precisely because the risk/benefit ratio doesn’t justify them having the AZ jab. Don’t forget that covid is very low risk to young people.

 

Trying to compare the risk of the jab to a car journey is very misleading. The risk of the jab depends upon the health and age of the patient. A car journey depends on the driver, the other driver, the road, the time of year etc. You can’t compare things in that way. Those that do are often trying to muddy the waters.

 

The only thing that ultimately matters is whether people will take the jab. Once alternatives are readily available, the AZ will be binned, for just that reason.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, apelike said:

I have just seen a photo on the BBC of the Sun newspaper headline and it reads...

 

"0.000095% chance of a killer clot after the AZ vaccine"

 

Being the media I am not sure how accurate it is though.

There have been about 90 occurrences of blood clots. That’s about 0.0004% of vaccinated people going on to get blood clots.

 

Of course, that’s not the whole story. The percentage for young women is higher and for old men, it is lower.

 

It’s not very big for either though

Edited by sibon

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, apelike said:

I have just seen a photo on the BBC of the Sun newspaper headline and it reads...

 

"0.000095% chance of a killer clot after the AZ vaccine"

 

Being the media I am not sure how accurate it is though.

The headline is more accurate than the Freddie Starr ate my hamster headline.  All the newspapers had their own version of the statics to send out the same message which is to encourage people to have  any covid-19 vaccine when offered.

Edited by West 77

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I had my second AZ jab yesterday and never gave a second thought about doing so.

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Baron99,

 

If you hadn't been too lazy to look up your own facts, I would have never bothered entering the thread at all. I quoted a government website, hardly a "dodgy news feed"

 

Before you disappear too far up your own ladder, you should know that every single assumption you made about my position is wrong, quite a feat.  You certainly took one little comment and ran with it. The equivalent of assuming everyone with a beer in their hand is an alcoholic.

 

Insults don't bother me, carry on if you need the human interaction. Suggesting people are lying without any evidence is a bit stupid though.

 

Various countries including our own have postponed using the AZ vaccine on certain age groups - using your fantasy extrapolations, that makes them anti-vax, anti-mask etc. There are 8 vaccines that may be in used in our country, and possibly many more in the pipeline. They are not all going to be safe, and we don't have a choice currently which one we get.

 

Don't quote me,  go for a walk or something.  I'm done.

 

 

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Think the Sun has it right.

17 cases of death that MIGHT be vaccine related out of 20,200,000 doses given.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, fools said:

Baron99,

 

If you hadn't been too lazy to look up your own facts, I would have never bothered entering the thread at all. I quoted a government website, hardly a "dodgy news feed"

 

Before you disappear too far up your own ladder, you should know that every single assumption you made about my position is wrong, quite a feat.  You certainly took one little comment and ran with it. The equivalent of assuming everyone with a beer in their hand is an alcoholic.

 

Insults don't bother me, carry on if you need the human interaction. Suggesting people are lying without any evidence is a bit stupid though.

 

Various countries including our own have postponed using the AZ vaccine on certain age groups - using your fantasy extrapolations, that makes them anti-vax, anti-mask etc. There are 8 vaccines that may be in used in our country, and possibly many more in the pipeline. They are not all going to be safe, and we don't have a choice currently which one we get.

 

Don't quote me,  go for a walk or something.  I'm done.

 

 

Glad you're done but I'm not. Back from taking the dog for a walk.

 

Thanks but I will quote you.  Post 4693 from yesterday;  "Given that most of them had it in the last 2 months, and have got more jabs to go, there's plenty of time for more long-term side effects to appear.

 

You were assured it was safe, had all the tests blah blah, didn't take long for that to unravel."

 

Quick question?  The 'Blah blah blah' bit?  Is that when the dodgy news feed went down & wasn't available for copying? 

 

Between that post & me telling you none of us are really bothered if you take up the vaccine offered to you or not, you appear to have changed your tune & a bit of backtracking? 

 

I know you didn't want me too but I'm quoting you again, post 4792;  "I'll have a jab at some point.". 

 

I understand the reticence that some people have about getting vaccinated.  Frightened it will hurt?  I doesn't. Scared of side effects.  You've more chance of winning the big prize on the lottery.  The upside is you get a nice little sticker that states you've had your first jab. 

 

The little stickers for the first & second vaccines are perhaps going to become invaluable, along with the little bit of literature you get, as the vaccine take up rate is running at over 90% from what I heard on the tv today & the support according to polls for a COVID passport scheme is running at over 70%, so these figures are going to dictate Govt. policy in the next few months on this matter. After all, the majority don't want to be mixing with the minority who refuse to be vaccinated, (I'm surmising provison will be made for the genuine tiny section of society who are unable to be vaccinated, as opposed to those who simply refuse vaccination?), as we go into work, shops, pubs, bars & restaurants, cinemas, sporting events & generally get to enjoy the trappings of life again. 

 

At the end of the day, we who are vaccinated, don't want to run the risk of coming into contact with those who refuse to be vaccinated.  And before you moan & groan & start shouting that it's your right to refuse a vaccine, yes it is & I'll support you on that but the consequences of that action should result in you not being able to fully take part in what will become 'normal' life over the next 6 months, (or even into 2022), until we have got a full grip on the pandemic & mitigate any variant that those not being vaccinated may create by allowing the virus to continue in society.   

 

But I'm guessing you're already a part jabbed, paid up member but just trying to get a rise out of folk on SF by playing Devil's advocate?  Been found out on this occasion. 

 

Edited by Baron99

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1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

Back from taking the dog for a walk. Thanks but I will quote you.  Post 4693 from yesterday; 

 

"Given that most of them had it in the last 2 months, and have got more jabs to go, there's plenty of time for more long-term side effects to appear.

 

You were assured it was safe, had all the tests blah blah, didn't take long for that to unravel."

 

Quick question?  The 'Blah blah blah' bit?  Is that when the dodgy news feed went down & wasn't available for copying? 

 

Between that post & me telling you none of us are really bothered if you take up the vaccine offered to you or not, you appear to have changed your tune? 

 

I know you didn't want me too but I'm quoting you again, post 4792;  "I'll have a jab at some point.". 

 

I understand the reticence that some people have about getting vaccinated.  Frightened it will hurt?  I doesn't. Scared of side effects.  You've more chance of winning the big prize on the lottery.  The upside is you get a nice little sticker that states you've had your first jab. 

 

The little stickers for the first & second vaccines are perhaps going to become invaluable, along with the little bit of literature you get, as the vaccine take up rate is running at over 90% from what I heard on the tv today & the support according to polls for a COVID passport scheme is running at over 70%, so these figures are going to dictate Govt. policy in the next few months on this matter. After all, the majority don't want to be mixing with the minority who refuse to be vaccinated, (I'm surmising provison will be made for the genuine tiny section of society who are unable to be vaccinated, as opposed to those who simply refuse vaccination?), as we go into work, shops, pubs, bars & restaurants, cinemas, sporting events & generally get to enjoy the trappings of life again. 

 

At the end of the day, we who are vaccinated, don't want to run the risk of coming into contact with those who refuse to be vaccinated.  And before you moan & groan & start shouting that it's your right to refuse a vaccine, yes it is & I'll support you on that but the consequences of that action should result in you not being able to fully take part in what will become 'normal' life over the next 6 months, (or even into 2022), until we have got a full grip on the pandemic & mitigate any variant that those not being vaccinated may create by allowing the virus to continue in society.   

 

But I'm guessing you're already a part jabbed, paid up member but just trying to get a rise out of folk on SF by playing Devil's advocate?  Been found out on this occasion. 

 

I DIDNT GET A STICKER.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

I DIDNT GET A STICKER.

You've been short changed then.  Little sticker with a crown in the middle, attached to a little card showing the vaccine used, (in my case, AZ), with the vaccine batch number, date of the first vaccination & room below for details of the second vaccination.  All published by Public Health England. 

Edited by Baron99

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18 hours ago, sibon said:

There have been about 90 occurrences of blood clots. That’s about 0.0004% of vaccinated people going on to get blood clots.

 

Of course, that’s not the whole story. The percentage for young women is higher and for old men, it is lower.

 

It’s not very big for either though

I've heard, though I can't quote the source right at this moment, that the risk of blood clot from the AZ vaccine is less than the risk caused by the contraceptive pill, and young women consider that an acceptable risk.

 

Also, Covid-19 itself increases the risk of blood clots.  Guidance for primary care services in Sheffield includes checking post-Covid patients are on anticoagulant medication when discharged from hospital.

 

 

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If anyone is interested, from today people can get free lateral flow tests.

 

From 9 April, kits will be available through:

Community testing sites operated by local authorities

Collection from a nearby PCR test site during specific time windows

Existing workplace testing programmes

An online home ordering service with kits then delivered through the post

Participating local pharmacies where a box of 7 tests can be collected to be used twice a week at home

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56632084 )

 

The link to home ordering is

https://www.gov.uk/order-coronavirus-rapid-lateral-flow-tests

 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, whiteowl said:

If anyone is interested, from today people can get free lateral flow tests.

 

From 9 April, kits will be available through:

Community testing sites operated by local authorities

Collection from a nearby PCR test site during specific time windows

Existing workplace testing programmes

An online home ordering service with kits then delivered through the post

Participating local pharmacies where a box of 7 tests can be collected to be used twice a week at home

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56632084 )

 

The link to home ordering is

https://www.gov.uk/order-coronavirus-rapid-lateral-flow-tests

 

 

Thanks whiteowl.

 

Seems like they can give a high rate of false negative results, on the gov, website I think it says 58% false negative (edit. it’s 58% accuracy, so I guess 42% false negative) when used by general public, but the following suggests a higher rate of false negative results..

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/lateral-flow-tests-explained_uk_5fe1d176c5b6e1ce8335bce2

 

Quote

Prof Deeks said 7,189 students at the university were tested between December 2-9 – students self-swabbed and lateral flow tests were performed by testing team members. In total, two people tested positive for Covid-19, which Prof Deeks said was in line with low rates from other universities – and these positive results were also confirmed via a PCR test.

 

But when researchers randomly sampled roughly 10% of those who tested negative with the lateral flow test, and retested their samples with PCR tests, they unearthed six false negative cases. “We thus estimate that we found two cases and will have missed 60 (because we only double tested 10%),” he said.

Assuming above is accurate, and the 10% of samples retested using PCR are representative of the whole, 62 students had Covid, and the lateral flow test only found 2 of those 62 to be positive.

 

I imagine the tests have some value, but there could also be a danger in people having the lateral flow test, getting a negative result, and believing they don’t have covid (and acting as if they don’t etc).

Edited by Waldo

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