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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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8 hours ago, apelike said:

That was just one point that I can agree with. The other main point about the actual vaccine project being a Socially Democratic construct does not hold though as the link I provided in post#4631 shows.

I think the knowledge that governments across the world were ready to use tax dollars to buy huge amounts of it (including the USA who have essentially set up a temporary national health service) was a big motivator for the drug companies to get a vaccine out as quickly as they did. Imagine if it had been down to individuals to buy their own doses.

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5 hours ago, Delbow said:

I think the knowledge that governments across the world were ready to use tax dollars to buy huge amounts of it (including the USA who have essentially set up a temporary national health service) was a big motivator for the drug companies to get a vaccine out as quickly as they did. Imagine if it had been down to individuals to buy their own doses.

You are probably right but thats how healthcare works when it comes to purchasing and distribution especially in the UK with its NHS. 

 

What I dispute though is the idea that with the AstraZeneca one it was a social democratic construct that enabled development to happen. £100's of millions have been given by governments, the EU, a number of charities, private organisations and private people to a private company and it's associates to help develop a vaccine. There is no transparency or accountability from that company as to how much of that money was actually spent on development though. It may be a noble gesture to suspend its profits for a while and just charge the cost price but that's about it.

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8 minutes ago, apelike said:

You are probably right but thats how healthcare works when it comes to purchasing and distribution especially in the UK with its NHS. 

 

What I dispute though is the idea that with the AstraZeneca one it was a social democratic construct that enabled development to happen. £100's of millions have been given by governments, the EU, a number of charities, private organisations and private people to a private company and it's associates to help develop a vaccine. There is no transparency or accountability from that company as to how much of that money was actually spent on development though. It may be a noble gesture to suspend its profits for a while and just charge the cost price but that's about it.

Yes, and I doubt there is a big pharmaceutical company out there that hasn't had substantial financial help from government in one form or another, whether it's tax breaks on R&D, grant funding, or providing a steady flow of state educated graduates. It's interesting how people see a lot of private firms as standalone when they've benefited hugely from government programmes. Space X for example - on the face of it they are just a private company, but the technology they are using has been developed by NASA, using a staggering amount of public money. To develop the Apollo programme, the US government was allocating 10% of GDP for several years - that's huge! Back to vaccines, you would hope it isn't a case of "take public R&D money and then just max the profits", but it probably is, isn't it.

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What we have really done is paid up front for advance purchases of vaccines.

Those advance payments have enabled swifter development and increases of production capacity that have got us to where we are today.

UK have paid a rough average of £10 per vaccination for 300 million doses spread over several companies.

Prices have varied between companies.

A rough comparison is that we pay around £6 or £7 for flu vaccinations.

 

The US are paying more on average but seem to pay roughly the same as they pay for flu.

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On 29/03/2021 at 15:21, enntee said:

What we have really done is paid up front for advance purchases of vaccines.

Those advance payments have enabled swifter development and increases of production capacity that have got us to where we are today.

UK have paid a rough average of £10 per vaccination for 300 million doses spread over several companies.

Prices have varied between companies.

A rough comparison is that we pay around £6 or £7 for flu vaccinations.

 

The US are paying more on average but seem to pay roughly the same as they pay for flu.

We have paid for a few different vaccines, that we may not use. Its been stated that some vaccines should be given to poor countries, but with new varriants coming, those vaccines may be worthless.

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51 minutes ago, El Cid said:

We have paid for a few different vaccines, that we may not use. Its been stated that some vaccines should be given to poor countries, but with new varriants coming, those vaccines may be worthless.

"may" or may not.
We have a very successful vaccination programme.

On of the reasons that we do, is because of the entrepreneurial approach as mentioned.

What's your point?

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2 hours ago, enntee said:

"may" or may not.
We have a very successful vaccination programme.

On of the reasons that we do, is because of the entrepreneurial approach as mentioned.

Not sure it was an entrepreneurial approach. Most of the pharma companies and especially Astrazeneca were in the main paid to try and develop a successful vaccine and also paid in advance to deliver it. Successful yes but it was not very entrepreneurial as they didn't take much risk when it came to financing development and rollout. As stated already, £100's of millions were given to them so it hugely mitigated any risk. 

 

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That's right.

 

Boris Johnson would like us to believe that capitalism and greed enabled the success of the UK vaccine project. In fact, following the private sector catastrophe of the PPE scandal and the devastating failed promise of a world-beating outsourced test and trace project, the vaccine success is due entirely to social democratic mechanisms - up front public investment to encourage innovation in a sector that prefers to sell established staples - SSRIs, analgesics and nicotine patches; the use of legacy public education institutions; and supply of the finished product 'at cost' rather than to shareholder advantage, administered via the NHS.

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2 hours ago, Staunton said:

That's right.

 

Boris Johnson would like us to believe that capitalism and greed enabled the success of the UK vaccine project. In fact, following the private sector catastrophe of the PPE scandal and the devastating failed promise of a world-beating outsourced test and trace project, the vaccine success is due entirely to social democratic mechanisms - up front public investment to encourage innovation in a sector that prefers to sell established staples - SSRIs, analgesics and nicotine patches; the use of legacy public education institutions; and supply of the finished product 'at cost' rather than to shareholder advantage, administered via the NHS.

The capitalism and greed comments were said in a joking manner to poke fun at a Tory whip who was gobbling down food while Boris Johnson was talking to Tory MPs in a private meeting.  

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23 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The capitalism and greed comments were said in a joking manner to poke fun at a Tory whip who was gobbling down food while Boris Johnson was talking to Tory MPs in a private meeting.  

...and if you believe that, you really will believe anything! :hihi:

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16 minutes ago, Magilla said:

...and if you believe that, you really will believe anything! :hihi:

Makes no difference to me whether it's a true of false explanation.  I'm just reporting what someone told Laura Kuenssberg.   I'm just grateful that myself and other family members have already benefited from the fast UK covid-19 vaccine rollout and feel fortunate to live in the UK rather than in somewhere like the EU where they seem to be having many problems. Thank goodness for British efficiency.

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My neighbour is in his middle fifties and although registered with his GP for a Coronavirus jab, he hasn’t yet heard anything. He asked me if people can pay privately to have the jab.Does anyone know anything about this ?

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