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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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So, unlocking begins, but anyone who has seen Endcliffe Park pover the last month, will wonder what the fuss is all about, weekends are like Glasto(same demogaphics as well) no 2 m S/D, congregating in  large numbers around the cafe, no waiting for people to cross the bridge(even for obviously disabled/vulnerable) , real self entitlement, where are the police?

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Trying to look at it from another side (and I know we're all in this together etc, but...), try to look at this from the point of view of the 18-30 group.

 

A major pandemic starts, that has serious outcomes for primarily the over 80's who have prior serious medical conditions.   There is very little chance of anyone in your age group having any problems with it, as most will get it and get over it, probably without even knowing anything about having had it and defeating it.  To shield the elderly, you have had serious curtailing of liberties etc for a whole year, while scientists try to find some way of defeating the virus.  Vaccines are found, the top layers of those "at risk" are vaccinated, deaths fall, and yet no date of when you can get back to normal life.

 

Instead of thanking younger people for the vast majority of them obeying the Covid regulations and basically not having a social life for a whole year, people still criticise them when a few walk out with a few mates for some fresh air.

 

 

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Yes, I know, but is the brazenness of some of them, they can see who needs avoiding, etc, but yes, they have sacrificed so much, my Covid volunteer, 23, usually so confident, is struggling emotionally now., we do owe them, a lot.

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1 hour ago, Thirsty Relic said:

Trying to look at it from another side (and I know we're all in this together etc, but...), try to look at this from the point of view of the 18-30 group.

 

A major pandemic starts, that has serious outcomes for primarily the over 80's who have prior serious medical conditions.   There is very little chance of anyone in your age group having any problems with it, as most will get it and get over it, probably without even knowing anything about having had it and defeating it.  To shield the elderly, you have had serious curtailing of liberties etc for a whole year, while scientists try to find some way of defeating the virus.  Vaccines are found, the top layers of those "at risk" are vaccinated, deaths fall, and yet no date of when you can get back to normal life.

 

Instead of thanking younger people for the vast majority of them obeying the Covid regulations and basically not having a social life for a whole year, people still criticise them when a few walk out with a few mates for some fresh air.

 

 

You might be surprised at how many people who are NOT over 80 have had very serious problems with Covid 19 and very many have died, from teenage years upwards so that is a very sweeping and misleading statement.

We have had these curtailing of liberties  for a year in an effort to shield EVERYONE. Deaths may have fallen but still averaged over 600 a day last week so the emergency is a long way from over.

There's a reason for "no date when we can get back to normal life" It's quite obvious to most people that we will NEVER  get back to normal life unless science can come up with a better answer than the present vaccines.

People of any age, who defied the restrictions, fully deserve to be criticised because they are the people who have been spreading Covid and prolonging this horrible lock-down for everyone.

Youngsters in the past have been whisked off, whether they liked it or not to fight wars and with many losing their lives in this pursuit, I don't think today's youth have done as badly as they might.

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22 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

You might be surprised at how many people who are NOT over 80 have had very serious problems with Covid 19 and very many have died, from teenage years upwards so that is a very sweeping and misleading statement.

We have had these curtailing of liberties  for a year in an effort to shield EVERYONE. Deaths may have fallen but still averaged over 600 a day last week so the emergency is a long way from over.

There's a reason for "no date when we can get back to normal life" It's quite obvious to most people that we will NEVER  get back to normal life unless science can come up with a better answer than the present vaccines.

People of any age, who defied the restrictions, fully deserve to be criticised because they are the people who have been spreading Covid and prolonging this horrible lock-down for everyone.

Youngsters in the past have been whisked off, whether they liked it or not to fight wars and with many losing their lives in this pursuit, I don't think today's youth have done as badly as they might.

Absolutely.

On the point of Endcliffe Park, this shouldn’t be a cause for concern. Outdoor transmission of covid is minimal and where it does it through prolonged contact and crowding, not passing someone for a few seconds. The chance of catching it that way is vanishingly unlikely and an infected person  would have cough right in your face just as you inhaled to transmit it. 

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9 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

You might be surprised at how many people who are NOT over 80 have had very serious problems with Covid 19 and very many have died, from teenage years upwards so that is a very sweeping and misleading statement.

We have had these curtailing of liberties  for a year in an effort to shield EVERYONE. Deaths may have fallen but still averaged over 600 a day last week so the emergency is a long way from over.

There's a reason for "no date when we can get back to normal life" It's quite obvious to most people that we will NEVER  get back to normal life unless science can come up with a better answer than the present vaccines.

People of any age, who defied the restrictions, fully deserve to be criticised because they are the people who have been spreading Covid and prolonging this horrible lock-down for everyone.

Youngsters in the past have been whisked off, whether they liked it or not to fight wars and with many losing their lives in this pursuit, I don't think today's youth have done as badly as they might.

What do you propose then?

The vaccines are the best hope we've got and are 85 - 95% effective which is pretty good considering.

Then there's herd immunity too.

As far as I'm aware very few vaccines, if any, give 100% immunity. As with the flu jab, if it mitigates the worst effects of the infection for most people then it's probably as good as it gets.

 

I for one don't want to spend any more time in Lockdown than necessary, and look forward to things returning to near normal as soon as possible. Many people are suffering from Covid without ever getting the disease; their livelihoods going down the pan, other illnesses going unchecked, mental stress, basic human companionship in decline...

 

We just have to live with it. Older people in particular know that something's going to get them in the end, nobody gets out alive, so the secret is to enjoy the time you've got. The only alternative is to put yourself in permanent lockdown for as long as you like, but it's no way to live and the longer it goes on the worse it gets. So I will be striding out just as soon as I can, and just hoping that I don't end up under a bus.  

Edited by Anna B

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2 hours ago, Anna B said:

 

The vaccines are the best hope we've got and are 85 - 95% effective which is pretty good considering.

Then there's herd immunity too.

 

Cases and deaths are coming down, because of lockdown, no massive decline because of vaccination as yet.

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2 hours ago, Anna B said:

What do you propose then?

The vaccines are the best hope we've got and are 85 - 95% effective which is pretty good considering.

Then there's herd immunity too.

As far as I'm aware very few vaccines, if any, give 100% immunity. As with the flu jab, if it mitigates the worst effects of the infection for most people then it's probably as good as it gets.

 

I for one don't want to spend any more time in Lockdown than necessary, and look forward to things returning to near normal as soon as possible. Many people are suffering from Covid without ever getting the disease; their livelihoods going down the pan, other illnesses going unchecked, mental stress, basic human companionship in decline...

 

We just have to live with it. Older people in particular know that something's going to get them in the end, nobody gets out alive, so the secret is to enjoy the time you've got. The only alternative is to put yourself in permanent lockdown for as long as you like, but it's no way to live and the longer it goes on the worse it gets. So I will be striding out just as soon as I can, and just hoping that I don't end up under a bus.  

I can appreciate where you coming from with this but having read the opinions of Prof Devi Sridhar and other experts I believe we ought to be little more patient and drive the number of cases right down before unlocking and have a phased return to schools. Then have a proper test, trace and isolate system in place to squash any outbreaks. There have been lots of headlines about cases going down but they are not down at the levels seen last summer and as Chris Whitby has pointed out hospitalisations are only slightly lower than the peak of April 2020. Vaccines will make a huge difference but the government’s strategy is overly reliant on them. We don’t need to stay locked down forever and no one wants to. But, I would prefer the lockdown to be extended by a few weeks to get infections rates down to really low levels and then  stay out of lockdown for good than open up prematurely and have cases rises, cause unnecessary suffering and restrictions come back again.

I also think better education of the public is needed on where the risks are i.e. stuffy, crowded, indoor places. People should be encouraged outdoors to exercise for physical and mental health and stop the flipping stupid footpath dodging passing people outside because that is NOT how you catch covid!!

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4 hours ago, Anna B said:

What do you propose then?

The vaccines are the best hope we've got and are 85 - 95% effective which is pretty good considering.

Then there's herd immunity too.

As far as I'm aware very few vaccines, if any, give 100% immunity. As with the flu jab, if it mitigates the worst effects of the infection for most people then it's probably as good as it gets.

 

I for one don't want to spend any more time in Lockdown than necessary, and look forward to things returning to near normal as soon as possible. Many people are suffering from Covid without ever getting the disease; their livelihoods going down the pan, other illnesses going unchecked, mental stress, basic human companionship in decline...

 

We just have to live with it. Older people in particular know that something's going to get them in the end, nobody gets out alive, so the secret is to enjoy the time you've got. The only alternative is to put yourself in permanent lockdown for as long as you like, but it's no way to live and the longer it goes on the worse it gets. So I will be striding out just as soon as I can, and just hoping that I don't end up under a bus.  

No need to propose anything.  We are already heading in the right direction and the government have  told  us how we make our way slowly back to as near normal as possible.

It just requires a little self discipline which, unfortunately is in short supply in this country.  If everyone had followed  the advice correctly, we would have been at this point sooner.

No one wants this to go on for much longer, including me,  but we are nearly there so we just need to stop whinging like spoilt kids,  about our lost freedoms and make the effort to regain them.

Many other nations have done much better than  us so we need to stop carping and understand the reasons why.

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ANNA B 

Very good points you make.

With the help of vaccines and therapeutics we will 

have to embrace the Acceptable Risk concept

as a means of getting back to normal.

https://www.nationalhealthexecutive.com/articles/professor-whitty-government-covid-acceptable-risk

 

 

Being vaccinated reduces the risk of dying from the complications associated with a Cov-19 infection. 

As therapeutics get better, treatments will be more successful at saving lives.

 The long parade of experts and scientists keep on telling us that, the virus cannot be  completely expunged and will be around for along time .

  

I also do not want to go into another lock down.

Returning back to normality cannot happen quick enough for me .

I do think with the aid of vaccines and therapeutics, we will eventually be able to get rid of the none clinical measures that are being used to suppress  Cov-19.

 

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14 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

You might be surprised at how many people who are NOT over 80 have had very serious problems with Covid 19 and very many have died, from teenage years upwards so that is a very sweeping and misleading statement.

We have had these curtailing of liberties  for a year in an effort to shield EVERYONE. Deaths may have fallen but still averaged over 600 a day last week so the emergency is a long way from over.

There's a reason for "no date when we can get back to normal life" It's quite obvious to most people that we will NEVER  get back to normal life unless science can come up with a better answer than the present vaccines.

People of any age, who defied the restrictions, fully deserve to be criticised because they are the people who have been spreading Covid and prolonging this horrible lock-down for everyone.

Youngsters in the past have been whisked off, whether they liked it or not to fight wars and with many losing their lives in this pursuit, I don't think today's youth have done as badly as they might.

Wheeling out this old comparison again. Do you think today's youngsters and young adults should be eternally grateful for not being press ganged and shot dead in a foreign field  and therefore tolerate without dissent whatever is asked of them?

 

Just to be clear, I don't. I doubt many of those who did suffer that fate would want that either.

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11 minutes ago, Bargepole23 said:

Wheeling out this old comparison again. Do you think today's youngsters and young adults should be eternally grateful for not being press ganged and shot dead in a foreign field  and therefore tolerate without dissent whatever is asked of them?

 

Just to be clear, I don't. I doubt many of those who did suffer that fate would want that either.

No, I don't expect anyone to be grateful for being spared that fate.

I do expect that people of all ages show more consideration for others and make more efforts to avoid spreading Covid.
I'm quite sure that all the doctors, nurses and ancillary staff in Intensive Care Units and all those people who have lost precious loved ones will agree with me.

As for those who want to be selfish and carry on spreading the virus, I don't care whether they agree with me or not.

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