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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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24 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said:

... whereas most of us would link it to the fact that parts of Spain  (particularly around Barcelona) are in lockdown already following Covid outbreaks and France are looking at closing their borders with Spain as a result.  Surely we are right in taking some positive steps after (perhaps prematurely) allowing travel to Spain.

Of course we're right to reimpose then essential travel / quarantine regulations but as Pettytom has pointed out, whose around to do the checking?  Didn't a story come out the other week that no police or other agencies had done any follow up on those arriving from the previous list of countries where people were supposed to be self-isolating? 

 

There is no deterrent.  A piddling little initial fine, (& nobody is ever going to be fined the maximum, given we don't even seem to be issuing the small fine), reduced if you pay early. 

 

Compare our fines with those on mainland Europe or even the story I was reading the other day about a man who had travelled from Jersey to Guernsey & was required to isolate for 14 days on arrival in Guernsey.  He signed the required documentation confirming he would. 

 

He broke his quarantine on day 13 & was caught out.   He was in court in Guernsey in the last week.... £6,000 fine.

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Posted (edited)

 
 

21 hours ago, Baron99 said:

You still have to couple it with social distancing.  There was little evidence of that in the reports from a few weeks ago.   You've only got to look at the photo in the link posted by DerbyTup this morning for evidence of that. 

Isn't that the point though?  There was no evidence of social distancing on that beach at Bournemouth and the same was true at the other places they monitored.  Yet they found no significant increases in the infection rate.  So why are we being asked to social distance outdoors? 

 

14 hours ago, iansheff said:

Just seen this breaking news on the Mirror site. British tourists to Spain will have to quarantine for two weeks on return to UK. The UK government is reportedly set to announce imminently that the change will affect all tourists - unless they're back by midnight tonight.

Is it worth the risk of booking a holiday abroad only to find half way through you may have to isolate when you get home.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-british-tourists-spain-quarantine-22415865#source=breaking-news

Yep I think so.

 

I booked a holiday to Spain in September.  I booked it about a month ago actually, when quarantine restrictions were in place, both ways, between the UK and Spain.  I watch the coronavirus situation pretty closely let's say - and I fully expected the government to lift the quarantine restrictions on visiting Spain, so I got in quick because I knew as soon as they lifted the restrictions, people (at least some people) would flock to book a holiday and the prices would shoot up.  

 

I got an absolute bargain (I think!) on the property, a villa on the costa del sol, sleeps 10, has its own grounds and large swimming pool, 10 nights for £2k.  And flights, £99 return, Manchester to Malaga.  

 

Now the quarantine is back on again is it?  Oh o.k.  Well, that's not so good news for me, but, if I want to, I can cancel the Villa up until the end of August and seeing as no money has passed between me and them there is no losses there.  It's free cancellation up to that date.  And the flights can be refunded too.  So I think I'll put my feet up on this one and wait and see what happens during August.

 

As a self-employed person who works most of the time from home it is no issue at all for me if I do have to self-isolate on returning from Spain.  It may be a little more challenging for others in my family, although at the present time they aren't exactly needing to "go out" to work, everyday, they can work from home.  And it's only for 2 weeks eh?  No problem.

 

I can not see this impacting on our holiday tbh.  I think by the time another month passes the situation could have changed again, but even if it doesn't, I'm prepared, we're prepared, to go on holiday under these conditions.

 

Edited by DerbyTup

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The UK and Spain rushed the opening of borders to soon to capitalise on the peak tourism trade in my opinion.

 

Was pretty obvious that September/October was a much more sensible time to start letting people back in.

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5 hours ago, DerbyTup said:

 
 

Isn't that the point though?  There was no evidence of social distancing on that beach at Bournemouth and the same was true at the other places they monitored.  Yet they found no significant increases in the infection rate.  So why are we being asked to social distance outdoors? 

 

Yep I think so.

 

I booked a holiday to Spain in September.  I booked it about a month ago actually, when quarantine restrictions were in place, both ways, between the UK and Spain.  I watch the coronavirus situation pretty closely let's say - and I fully expected the government to lift the quarantine restrictions on visiting Spain, so I got in quick because I knew as soon as they lifted the restrictions, people (at least some people) would flock to book a holiday and the prices would shoot up.  

 

I got an absolute bargain (I think!) on the property, a villa on the costa del sol, sleeps 10, has its own grounds and large swimming pool, 10 nights for £2k.  And flights, £99 return, Manchester to Malaga.  

 

Now the quarantine is back on again is it?  Oh o.k.  Well, that's not so good news for me, but, if I want to, I can cancel the Villa up until the end of August and seeing as no money has passed between me and them there is no losses there.  It's free cancellation up to that date.  And the flights can be refunded too.  So I think I'll put my feet up on this one and wait and see what happens during August.

 

As a self-employed person who works most of the time from home it is no issue at all for me if I do have to self-isolate on returning from Spain.  It may be a little more challenging for others in my family, although at the present time they aren't exactly needing to "go out" to work, everyday, they can work from home.  And it's only for 2 weeks eh?  No problem.

 

I can not see this impacting on our holiday tbh.  I think by the time another month passes the situation could have changed again, but even if it doesn't, I'm prepared, we're prepared, to go on holiday under these conditions.

 

Doesn't sound much of a holiday though. Every where shut and and you're stuck in a villa eating super noodles. 

5 hours ago, Fudbeer said:

The UK and Spain rushed the opening of borders to soon to capitalise on the peak tourism trade in my opinion.

 

Was pretty obvious that September/October was a much more sensible time to start letting people back in.

I understand why they did it, and it's hard to disagree with the logic behind it, the Spanish economy needs the money

 

That said I think the UK government made the right decision, but, as ever, it's going to be half cocked because nobody will be monitoring returning holiday makers.

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Yes its more or less unenforceable but will stop most holiday makers going there,

 

I also think they could have warned a week ago this was likely to happen as it was widely reported it would and would have given all those people who went the chance to think again.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Fudbeer said:

Yes its more or less unenforceable but will stop most holiday makers going there,

 

I also think they could have warned a week ago this was likely to happen as it was widely reported it would and would have given all those people who went the chance to think again.

Transport Minister, Grant Shapps, flew out to Spain yesterday afternoon with his family, so clearly nobody kept him in the loop. 

 

The problem of a hotspot in N. E. Spain, including just outside Barcelona has been going on for a few weeks.  I remember a posting on SF some weeks ago with a link to a BBC report. 

 

At the end of the day, if someone's booked a holiday somewhere in Europe this year, it's down to them to keep on top of things.  We've got a holiday at the end of Sept to Malta & I check the Maltese press / news online at least once a week, as we've got the remainder of our deposit to pay early Sept. 

Edited by Baron99

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Arnold Lane,

 

No need for any apology. Your question is a good one and not aggressive  at all.

I don't pretend to be an expert . I was part of Act Up back in the day, and lobbied 

the pharmaceutical /research industry to get some giddy up with their  research into

Antiretrovirals for the treatment of HIV.

 

The following link explains- better than I can- the advantages of Historica Control Groups over Placebo 

Controls.

 

https://www.statisticshowto.com/historical-controls/

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9 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Transport Minister, Grant Shapps, flew out to Spain yesterday afternoon with his family, so clearly nobody kept him in the loop. 

Which is pretty funny.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Which is pretty funny.

It might be the case of; "Well Shapps' in Spain for a fortnight, then he won't be coming in for a further 2 weeks after that.  If he phone up, ignore it.  If he tries to Skype, blame it on a poor IT connection." 😂

 

"We can get a good month out of this." 

Edited by Baron99

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, petemcewan said:

Arnold Lane,

 

No need for any apology. Your question is a good one and not aggressive  at all.

I don't pretend to be an expert . I was part of Act Up back in the day, and lobbied 

the pharmaceutical /research industry to get some giddy up with their  research into

Antiretrovirals for the treatment of HIV.

 

The following link explains- better than I can- the advantages of Historica Control Groups over Placebo 

Controls.

 

https://www.statisticshowto.com/historical-controls/

Hi Pete,
 

Covid 19 is a new disease.  There is no known cure yet but various different treatments have been used to help patients recover.  
 

Is it fully understood why some people suffer more than others?  Why might one 30 year old with no underlying health condition get it and die and another be asymptomatic?

 

Can you have a valid historical control group before you fully understand the disease?
 

Interesting link but it doesn’t explain why the placebo is being used for the Covid trials rather than historical control groups.  I assume there must be a reason.

 

 

Edited by Arnold_Lane

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On 25/07/2020 at 20:36, enntee said:

... and how many will actually self-isolate upon return?

Well, if I knew that workmate Fred and his family had just returned from their holiday, and hadn't isolated for a fortnight, I think I'd be saying something to him when he plonks his backside in the office chair next to me....

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