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Coronavirus - Part Two.

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7 minutes ago, L00b said:

It's not auspicious, and the way the Commission went about it makes for poor optics.

 

Expect a corrective U-turn very soon...

 

...or, as the case may turn out, an explainer to justify the decision.

I'm intrigued into way they are doing it? Do they think AZ are on the fiddle? More over do they think they're on the fiddle at Boris' behest? They are coming out of this very badly.

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19 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

I'm intrigued into way they are doing it? Do they think AZ are on the fiddle? More over do they think they're on the fiddle at Boris' behest? They are coming out of this very badly.

Apparently a delivery note was found by investigators, for a very early shipment of vaccine from AZ's Belgian factory to NI, which (if it happened) puts AZ in breach of its contractual obligations to the EU about the initial 300m doses.

 

That breach would then necessarily be either wilful (on gvt order or out of patriotism or ...) or accidental. The export control is designed to mitigate reoccurrence of that breach irrespectively of whether it is wilful or accidental: customs officer would just seize the shipments in Zeebrugge or wherever else they leave Belgium.

 

But this is all still looking very confused, there is some doubt about whether the Commission actually took a/the decision under Article 16 at all, and it wasn't instead some unauthorised disclosure of preparatory materials (the Commission had been talking about Art.16 for quite a while). 

 

It's a political mess. But at least, it's not an illegal one (if the decision was actually taken), because Art.16 allows unilateral invoking without consultation in an emergency (which this would be, if the underlying facts are averred).

Edited by L00b

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22 minutes ago, L00b said:

Apparently a delivery note was found by investigators, for a very early shipment of vaccine from AZ's Belgian factory to NI, which (if it happened) puts AZ in breach of its contractual obligations to the EU about the initial 300m doses.

 

That breach would then necessarily be either wilful (on gvt order or out of patriotism or ...) or accidental. The export control is designed to mitigate reoccurrence of that breach irrespectively of whether it is wilful or accidental: customs officer would just seize the shipments in Zeebrugge or wherever else they leave Belgium.

 

But this is all still looking very confused, there is some doubt about whether the Commission actually took a/the decision under Article 16 at all, and it wasn't instead some unauthorised disclosure of preparatory materials (the Commission had been talking about Art.16 for quite a while). 

 

It's a political mess. But at least, it's not an illegal one (if the decision was actually taken), because Art.16 allows unilateral invoking without consultation in an emergency (which this would be, if the underlying facts are averred).

I hate our government. They're incompetent liars in the main but they got in early (to the horror of many scientists  around the world), gambled and won.  To the untrained mind like mine, its a contract row.

 

EU citizens are watching our clown car of a government smash nearly 500k jabs a day at one point . Spain i think has less than 800k total. And I'd imagine Spanish and German and French etc people are rather ****** off that they're loved ones are behind us - the stupid British who left the EU. Unless there is some very dodgy dealings going on - I'm not sure our government are smart enough to do that, they're devious enough to try - the EU snoozed and lost.

 

Imagine if you will, if this decision was reversed. Do you think the EU would be sending vaccines to us? No, not one. It would be all "you're a third party, you voted to leave, you can't have the benefits". This whole charade is political arse covering. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said:

I hate our government. They're incompetent liars in the main but they got in early (to the horror of many scientists  around the world), gambled and won.  To the untrained mind like mine, its a contract row.

 

EU citizens are watching our clown car of a government smash nearly 500k jabs a day at one point . Spain i think has less than 800k total. And I'd imagine Spanish and German and French etc people are rather ****** off that they're loved ones are behind us - the stupid British who left the EU. Unless there is some very dodgy dealings going on - I'm not sure our government are smart enough to do that, they're devious enough to try - the EU snoozed and lost.

 

Imagine if you will, if this decision was reversed. Do you think the EU would be sending vaccines to us? No, not one. It would be all "you're a third party, you voted to leave, you can't have the benefits". This whole charade is political arse covering. 

 

 

Absolutely this.

 

I'm a fairly avid remainer (is that even a word these days?)  but I do think the EU fumbled the ball on this one. 

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2 hours ago, L00b said:

Apparently a delivery note was found by investigators, for a very early shipment of vaccine from AZ's Belgian factory to NI, which (if it happened) puts AZ in breach of its contractual obligations to the EU about the initial 300m doses.

 

That breach would then necessarily be either wilful (on gvt order or out of patriotism or ...) or accidental. The export control is designed to mitigate reoccurrence of that breach irrespectively of whether it is wilful or accidental: customs officer would just seize the shipments in Zeebrugge or wherever else they leave Belgium.

 

But this is all still looking very confused, there is some doubt about whether the Commission actually took a/the decision under Article 16 at all, and it wasn't instead some unauthorised disclosure of preparatory materials (the Commission had been talking about Art.16 for quite a while). 

 

It's a political mess. But at least, it's not an illegal one (if the decision was actually taken), because Art.16 allows unilateral invoking without consultation in an emergency (which this would be, if the underlying facts are averred).

Would be interested to see where you saw this? I don't seem to have come across it

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The press are reporting that the Irish government were not consulted before article 16 was triggered, how on earth does that happen?

On something that’s so sensitive to a member state it’s unbelievable. 

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El Cid,

 

Quote

Indeed, we need to learn. Gibraltar has had 6 deaths after they had the vaccine. 

Did they die as a consequence of being vaccinated ? Or did they get infected and were vaccinated too late?

Edited by petemcewan

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2 hours ago, petemcewan said:

El Cid,

 

Did they die as a consequence of being vaccinated ? Or did they get infected and were vaccinated to late?

Indeed some people will be vaccinated but unfortunately die as none of the vaccines offer 100% protection.  The jab(s), won't stop you from potentially getting a dose of COVID-19, just reduce its potency.  A jab won't fix people's underlying health problems, which will still put them at risk.  It will be the luck of the draw for a minority of people if they survive a bout of COVID-19 even after vaccination. 

 

It's the same luck that means people in tbeir teens, 20's & 30's have died while a woman of a 113, managed to survive. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sofialottopersio/2020/05/12/spains-oldest-woman-aged-113-has-survived-coronavirus/

 

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1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

Indeed some people will be vaccinated but unfortunately die as none of the vaccines offer 100% protection.  The jab(s), won't stop you from potentially getting a dose of COVID-19, just reduce its potency.  A jab won't fix people's underlying health problems, which will still put them at risk.  It will be the luck of the draw for a minority of people if they survive a bout of COVID-19 even after vaccination. 

 

It's the same luck that means people in tbeir teens, 20's & 30's have died while a woman of a 113, managed to survive. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sofialottopersio/2020/05/12/spains-oldest-woman-aged-113-has-survived-coronavirus/

 

Will the bbc report deaths within 28 days of the vaccination...just to scare us even more. 

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4 hours ago, petemcewan said:

El Cid,

 

Did they die as a consequence of being vaccinated ? Or did they get infected and were vaccinated to late?

I believe they died of COVID which they had picked up before the vaccine had time to build anti-bodies. So the goings on in Gibraltar should help us learn about the vaccine, if we can discus it sensibly.

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El Cid,

Thanks for the reply. That is so sad.

I think we have to be wary of the tactic used by antivaxers.

Anecdotal "cause-and-effect" rumours that erroneously tie a person's untimely demise to the fact they recently got a COVID-19 vaccine.

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